True, but the gray area of supernatural beings is not the end all and be all of the ethical and moral issues that the brothers are faced with. For Dean, it's always been about saving people *and* killing the evil thing "with as little harm to the locals as possible." Sam seemed okay, for example, with the "virgin" sacrifice in Jus in Bello. Dean felt that was wrong and wanted to find another way.

"No, I don't think that's Dean's thing at all. He's not the kind of guy who goes in for awards or external motivation. Most of his motivation is internal, he's doing what he thinks is right (which most of the time is a pretty clear cut issue in his head), and that's that, he doesn't care who's watching."

Agreed.

Hmm. I still don't agree. I don't think that's the problem here. Dean knows that Sam is fully capable of doing this. Dean has always thought Sam to be the stronger person. Yes, Dean's faith in Sam was shaken after Ruby, but I don't think it was ever about Sam's ability to get the job done. Dean's afraid for Sam and he doesn't want Sam to sacrifice his life, which is what he'll probably be doing.

"There's not many who Dean loves as much as he loves Sam, and part of that is the big brother and little brother dynamics."

I would say there's not anyone who Dean has ever loved more than Sam. *hugs them*

If their devotion to each other were absent the story would be far less dramatic and the show would have probably ended with Sam’s death in the pilot.

As far as their “jobs” are concerned – I simply meant that their place in the story is the result of their choices primarily and outside influence comes second. It is their extraordinary resilience that allows them to stand tall in the face of such formidable adversaries.

The thigh-holster … *gets misty-eyed*

Last season's finale was both boys but the twist came in the Dean portion when we found out the angel's were in favor of Lucifer rising. Of course, I think Kripke also thought the Sam portion of the episode had a twist when we found out Ruby was bad.  And joy of joy both boys took part in offing Ruby which I loved immensely.

I would like to see both boys acting together this year rather than at odds so I'm hoping Dean becomes more accepting of Sam's plan because Sam's plan is going to happen.

I also thought the fans who walked away from the finale last year thinking Sam was solely to blame for Lucifer being freed were totally wrong – the wrong point of that episode was to show the outside forces had more to do with it than either brother. In fact, of the two boys Dean was more at fault because sacrificing himself for Sam had less manipulation to it. Sam's final decision IMO came because of the altered phone call and Lilith's taunting. Sam didn't know Dean was there to support him, he probably thought this was his last chance to act before his own brother killed him.  

So I'm hoping for a finale where the boys are acting together with a single purpose – their humanity trumping all the angels, demons, and their supposed destiny. All the manipulative plans were for naught because of them exercising their free will and acting out of love each for the other.  I want a really triumphant ending to Kripke's five year arc.

I'm beginning to think my negativity towards Bobby is influencing the way I interpret the messages of those scenes where he is featured.

All around a terrific and interesting ep. More like this, please.

And yes, Sam deserves all the hugs we can give him!

I remember Phantom Traveller. Remember, after Sam expressed his surprise at The Dad talking that way about him to Jerry…Dean raised his eyebrows as if to say, "TOLD YA!" Still, those feelings of inadequacy were probably engrained early on and are never easy to get rid of.

Such GOOD points about Dean, because yes, he was in character, and true to himself, and loving Sammy, while having big brother reservations. He was excellent, all the way around and such a pleasure to see him being himself. (And yeah, Padalecki and Ackles make such a good combo, when they are on screen together, it's a wonder Show doesn't do that more often. I mean, I can only beg so much!)

Yes, he was. I don't have a problem with him being worried about Bobby, but surely in the big picture of things (as Sam was seeing) Bobby was just one man. What is worth more, the many or the few? I think that call has to be made over and over, though, not just one time.

Oh, god yes! "Why can't you see sense! Why can't you do it the way I would!" That's family for you. "Did you see the way daughter #4 wiped the table? Was she raised in a barn?" And so on. : D But yes, they definately fill each other's blank spots, and make up for the other one's weakness.

Well, I don't think that being focused on the long term and the big picture are mutually exclusive, in fact they seem to fit hand in hand with how Sam processes information. And Dean, same thing, small details, and the short-term.