Supernatural: Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid
Zombies Should Be More Fun Than This
by Sylvia Bond
Supernatural Episode Review – Season 5, Episode 15
“Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid”
It is a dark and stormy night. Lightning flickers over a deserted graveyard, when suddenly, two hands push out of the earth, followed by the head of a man whose skin is textured by decomposition. He pushes himself up and out, because he’s got things to do and places to be. And thus is introduced the long-awaited, post-hiatus zombie episode!
The zombie’s prey is easy to spot, because he’s the very next guy on the screen. His name, we soon learn, is Benny. And you can tell Benny’s a bad guy by his ripped jeans (he’s even got holes in the crotch, no less) and sleeveless shirt, his biker hair, earrings in his ear, and the glint of man-jewelry, ‘cause that’s how bad guys dress. AND he lives in a trailer!
But he’s drinking a beer (probably an all-American brand like Bud or PBR), and, according to Benjamin Franklin, beer is God’s way of telling us he loves us and wants us to be happy, so Benny might be a God-fearing man. Plus this guy’s watching the Discovery Channel, or maybe National Geographic, because he might be trying to improve his mind.
In spite of the clever parallels as to what’s happening on the TV screen between the cheetah and its wildebeest prey and what’s happening to this guy, I think we’re supposed to think that he’s truly evil (because of the way he looks and how he lives) and that he deserves what’s coming to him. However, I think it would have been more interesting if Benny had been clean-cut and working on his stamp collection while drinking a sweet tea. That way, the blood on the walls as his head came off would have been more of a shock. No matter, I have bigger fish to fry in regards to this episode.
Yes, Sam and Dean. They are sweet fish. Let us fry them. In butter.
Sam and Dean go to Sioux Falls, South Dakota, to investigate the report of a guy coming back from the dead. What makes this significant in any way is that Sioux Falls, South Dakota, is where Magical Bobby lives. I can see the Magical Bobby-based episode from miles off, much to my dismay, in spite of Dean’s off the cuff comment that they will have to work this gig themselves.
Sam and Dean show up at a diner in order to meet Digger. He tells them about how he saw this guy named Clay (who died five years ago) crawling into Benny’s trailer window, and that he probably killed Benny, only no one will believe Digger. Sam and Dean are, as per usual, disguised as FBI agents. Now you know how I love diners, and Sam and Dean as FBI agents are beautiful to behold, dressed in dark suits and will you look at those shoulders? Both sets are a manly, ax-handle wide. The ties, as well, have stripes going in the same direction, which means that the boys are getting along, plus they look all sparkly and pretty and rested, and I really like looking at them like that. But honestly I’m tired of the FBI disguise. It seems to be this all-encompassing, totally safe way to interview civilians, and because no one can touch them in this disguise, there’s no risk to it.
It’s old and boring, so the first wink of this disguise and I’m rolling my eyes, right? But as the boys double-team Digger for the information, and everything is going smoothly, in walks the sheriff. Digger refers to her as “Fargo,” which I’ll take as a lovely and much-deserved nod to the tough character of Sherriff Marge Gunderson in the movie Fargo (played by Frances McDormand, who has been far better praised for this role than I have time for here.). She comes upon them, wanting to know what they want with Digger. As soon as they flash their badges and their perky grins and intense gazes at her, she instantly wants proof of their IDs. (She’s immune to their charm, it seems, and that makes her a very rare bird indeed.)
Sam hands her the card so she can call their supervisor, but of course, her call goes to one of the phones at Magical Bobby’s house, appropriately marked so he knows which role to play. I loved this setup the last time we saw it; I thought it was a perfect nod to the reality of being an FBI agent, because yeah, sometimes people are going to want to talk to your supervisor.
So she calls and Magical Bobby answers the phone, and I expected it to go smoothly like it did in the past. But it doesn’t, and do you know why? Because the sheriff recognizes Magical Bobby’s voice, and darn it, I laughed out loud. I thought it was beautiful. Not only do the boys get caught red-handed, but Magical Bobby does too, and I’d say it’s about time.
Sam and Dean trundle out to Magical Bobby’s house, where he lives amidst the scraps and heaps of iron and old cars by which he makes his living. They ask Magical Bobby about the zombie thing, and he says he’s looked into it and there’s nothing for the boys to do so they should go away now. But check it. Magical Bobby’s house is clean. And when I say clean, I mean top to bottom. By my current understanding, he can’t use his legs, so how in heckfire did he clean the tops of everything? Sadly, Sam and Dean are oblivious (except for a comment about how everything smells like soap) and drive off in the Impala. In the rain.
Sam and Dean arrive at a cemetery to dig up Clay’s grave. Or at least, they dig up a coffin, which turns out to be empty, and a very fine sight it was. The digging, I mean, not the coffin. I love watching the boys at work together, doing physical labor like this and I think that’s for two reasons. One, they’re beautiful when they’re all sweating and grunting and manly and stuff. And two, because the digging up of a grave in the middle of the night harkens back to a more innocent time, when saving people, hunting things was all there was to it, and we didn’t have any of this, “and oh, yes, we’re hiding out from Lucifer, and trying to say no to the AA. Michael, and waiting to get shafted by the holy host, etc.”
Off they go to Clay’s house, because zombies, as you know, like to go home, where they are surrounded by family and friends and pictures of happier times in the past. Sam and Dean break in easily enough, but soon they are confronted with the Zombie Clay, who is a nice guy, really, and just wanted justice and revenge because he knows it was Benny who shot him in the back five years ago. Zombie Clay is dressed in nice clean pajamas and doesn’t want Sam and Dean to wake his kids, so he’s willing to come along quietly. Which is an odd turnaround for a zombie episode, because zombies? Aren’t nice. Except at the end of that one movie Shaun of the Dead, but even then they drooled.
Astonishingly, they are confronted by the sheriff, who arrests the boys, and is not at all concerned about Zombie Clay, who gets to go free because he’s a zombie and a tax payer. Which I thought was a good little switcheroo, even if I was confused, because Sam and Dean in handcuffs is always nice. I also like seeing Sam and Dean in jail, but that’s a personal dark kink of mine that does not need discussing here.
Alas, all too quickly, Magical Bobby shows up to bail them out and take them home, where they quickly discover the presence of, ta da, Magical Bobby’s zombie wife, Karen. He once killed her in a bungled attempt to do the right thing and destroy a demon. But it’s really okay, because she’s moved back in with him and has cleaned the house, is looking after MB, and hums as she makes pie. Which she starts shoving at Dean like they’re going to save his life.
I do love the scene were Dean is eating pie, and that is because I know he loves pie. What I also love is Sam making his classic Sammy bitchface to get Dean to stop, and I’m sure Sam is objecting to Dean eating pie for the same reason it gave me pause: The pies were made by zombies! Zombies aren’t alive! They’re dead and crawling with germs! Ack!
In a longish scene where the camera spends too much time on Magical Bobby and not enough on the boys, MB admits that because of the apocalypse, the dead are rising from their graves and since it happened in the bible, it’s not such a bad thing, is it?
Magical Bobby tells the boys that only 15 to 20 families actually have a zombie of a dead loved one living with them, and why, he’s even got a list! (Even though MB originally lied about the whole thing to the boys, all their research has been done for them, as usual.) Naturally, it’s Sam who takes the paper from Magical Bobby, and this made sense to me, because I think Sam is the kind of guy who likes a good list now and then.
And although the scene had too much Magical Bobby going blah, blah, blah, and reading from the bible, I thought the boys looked very pretty. I like them in a domestic setting once in a while, sitting around a table covered with a homey tablecloth. The light seems to glow on their faces, making their eyes sparkle a bit and their skin look soft. So I concentrated on that instead of on Magical Bobby, just to make the time go faster. And then, of course, I laughed out loud at the point where Dean hears that it’s the Grim Reaper who is behind all of the shenanigans in town because he covers his eyes with his manly hand and very tiredly comments, “Awesome, another Horseman, it must be Thursday.” I also liked it very much when Sam went to sit on the sideboard. He’s wearing a green, plaid, snap-button shirt with the sleeves rolled up so you can see the definition on his forearms, oh, baby. Don’t do it to me like that!
The boys end up at Roy’s Diner, where they have coffee and a dither, which of course I adored. It was old timey stuff, and the boys are working and talking and drinking coffee together, and it’s a very blissful scene. (I did notice the daily specials on the menu for Roy’s. The prices are right, but the lack of mention of a steak plate was wrong. I don’t know if you’ve ever been to South Dakota, but when you get there, they will want to feed you steak.) Anyway they dither about what to do and agree that Sam will do research while Dean stakes out Magical Bobby’s place to keep an eye on him. (Insert here my regularly scheduled complaint about the boys separating for any length of time.)
Next up, we see Dean standing guard outside of Magical Bobby’s house because he doesn’t trust Zombie Karen, even if she does make great pie. And there’s some beautiful camera work here, just gorgeous to look at. First there’s a close-up of Dean, scowling, and that’s never a bad thing. Then after a quick view of the house, we get Dean again, and oh, how I did love this shot.
The camera gives me Dean, leaning with those long legs of his against the Impala, which is a sleek black mass amidst the detritus of the scrap yard. And then the camera dollies in for a close-up, and then closer still, up to Dean’s intense face, with that one eyebrow drawn down in a half glare. It’s an iconic and delicious moment which to me represents Dean and his chosen task of standing guard against all the evil of the world, hooks up very nicely with the remark he made in the ep “Sam, Interrupted”, where he talks about being the only one who can save the world. (All Ackles is doing for this shot is standing there, but, oh my, how he stands.)
Zombie Karen comes out and wants Dean to come inside for more pie, which he does, trusting her not at all, but being willing to go along with it. Plus he gets more pie, which he eats, but the odd thing is that there are about a gazillion more pies all lined up, just waiting for him like debutantes at a cotillion ball. She remembers being killed by Magical Bobby and all, but all I could think about as I watched this scene was how nice Dean looked sitting there eating pie.
Meanwhile Sam does some research. He’s on his own, sadly, but I do get a shot of his beautiful backside and long, lean legs as he strolls across a tidy and manicured lawn. Once he peeks in the window, we learn that even the sheriff has a little zombie boy all her own, who she and her husband are reading to. Then he goes to a house where another suspected zombie is living. And then it gets gross and X-Files from there.
Remember the episode of the mutant woman hiding under the bed? That’s what this scene felt like. Inside is a zombie who has started to fall apart so badly, she’s coughing up mucus. She wants Sam to come closer, and closer still. He stands there for a moment with a cute, confused expression on his face as he considers whether or not it would be really bad manners to refuse a zombie, but being a nice boy, he does what she asks. But then she tries to eat him and spits up on him. Gross!
However, the grossout factor portends the shape of things to come, because eventually it comes to light that zombies will eventually start eating the people close to them. But you only see this once or twice so, on the whole, the zombies aren’t very scary. In fact they’re the opposite of scary. The zombie wife makes pies and cleans house. The zombie boy lets himself be read to by his mommy and daddy, and on it goes.
The boys go to Magical Bobby’s to tell them their discovery, but drama, drama, drama, he throws them out. Oh, like that’s never something Magical Bobby’s done to a Winchester before, so why are they so surprised? But they are shocked and hurt and allow themselves to be escorted out via Magical Bobby’s sidearm. The boys have a quick dither in the Impala, while the lamplight reflects brightly in their eyes. They dither the same thing they dithered before, and Dean’s choice is again the same. He’s going to go back and take care of Magical Bobby, while Sam is responsible for rescuing everyone else. That’s an uneven task allotment if you ask me (not that Sam’s not up to it), but moreover, they’re again separated, which is not the way I like things to go.
Dean goes back to Magical Bobby’s place, where all is not well, because Zombie Karen has collapsed and it’s obvious she is turning. So yeah, Magical Bobby knows he’s got to shoot his wife in the head because that’s the only way you can get rid of this particular type of zombie. So he holds her hand and talks to her and angst over the whole mess, and bam, he shoots her. Only we don’t see him shoot her, we are with Dean who hears the shot and rushes in and oh my GOD, there’s Magical Bobby crying. Only I couldn’t care less. Or, that is to say, I could have cared more if the same camera time was given to Sam’s troubles.
Because you know what Sam had to do? Oh yeah, the sheriff’s boy turns from a sweet, little zombie into a mommy-and-daddy-eating zombie and must be put down. Sam rushes in to save the day and takes the sheriff outside to safety. Then he takes the pistol and, with his Samhair falling adorably in his eyes, goes into the house and shoots the kid in the head to spare the mom. But do we get to see Sam doing this? Do we get to see Sam angsting over this? No we get bubkus! And is it because Sam isn’t affected and shouldered his way through that just fine? I doubt it. We don’t get to see it because the camera is on weeping Magical Bobby the whole time. And this seems like a waste to me because Magical Bobby is not a major character or a father figure, he’s a retconned uncle who only has time for Dean. Drives me crazy.
Sam and the sheriff gather the members of the families affected by a zombie visit and take them all to the sheriff’s office. Although, strangely, the members of the 15 to 20 families amount to only 10 or so people; shouldn’t the sheriff’s office be packed? It’s not even close to full. Never mind. It’s the zombie apocalypse, which for Sam would be much more preferable than a zombie clown apocalypse. Still, Sam’s awfully pretty when he’s in charge. And I did like the discussion about whether or not Magical Bobby was considered the town drunk by the townspeople. MB doesn’t seem the type, so is it a role he’s playing to keep people at a distance? Or does he really drink enough to get that title? If you find out, let me know.
Back at the ranch, Dean is loading up Magical Bobby’s van for him. Not because Magical Bobby can’t, but because the script calls for Dean to be all action and movement, and at the same time, Magical Bobby sits in his wheelchair. Dean goes into the scrap pile to investigate a noise, and then gets attacked by a zombie.
It’s a pivotal moment for this episode, as indeed it would be for all zombie-related tales, because as everyone knows zombies attack one after the other without stopping. They come at you and they come at you, and as you shoot each one (in the head, in this case), then more come behind them, so soon Magical Bobby and Dean will be up to their eyeballs in zombies. Which they soon are and the Shootout at the Zombie Corral is on!
Magical Bobby shoots in one direction only, but luckily for him, all the zombies attacking him come from exactly that direction. Dean does some shooting too, but soon he’s got his hands full getting Magical Bobby inside, because again, the script calls for Dean to push Magical Bobby’s wheelchair for him and shoot at the zombies (once they were in motion, I did not see Magical Bobby’s gun go off), even though Magical Bobby is perfectly capable of pushing himself through the junkyard. (Although we don’t see how Magical Bobby gets inside the house using his wheelchair, I’d hesitate to say it’s magic, and must assume it’s a ramp that was put in at one point).
The gunfire continues in the house, blam, blam, blam. I think I would have cared more had Sam and Dean been fighting the good fight together, but never mind, I could complain till I turn blue and it’s just not going to happen. Eventually Magical Bobby and Dean are cornered in a closet, and soon run out of ammo, because the rest of the ammo is in Magical Bobby’s van where Dean has so kindly loaded it. Dean has a funny moment when he assures Bobby that zombies are idiots and can’t pick a lock. Only the zombies start doing exactly that, and Dean snaps, “I’m making this stuff up as I go. Sue me!”
Luckily for me, the ep picks up a bit when Sam and the sheriff rush in to save the day and shoot all the zombies for Dean and Magical Bobby. Sam is all Samhair and muscle and movement, and then it’s over. Then there’s the funeral pyre, and Sam has wrapped all the bodies and built a pyre and doused them with a flammable liquid. I like how he’s concerned about the survivors, because Sam is ever the empathic one, and I hope he never changes.
Once more back at the scrapyard, Bobby sits, ansgting over his wife, who he’s now had to kill twice, oh, woe. Magical Bobby tries to apologize, Sam brushes this off, and Dean says that he doesn’t know anything about love, which anyone could tell you isn’t true. Then Bobby explains that Zombie Karen had a message from the Grim Reaper, that Bobby was to be killed because of all the help he’s given Dean and how he’s one of the reasons Sam’s still saying no to Lucifer, which completely threw me for a loop, because I have no idea how Magical Bobby helped on that one? Does anyone? Drop me a line and let me know, okay?
But I don’t really care that the zombies were supposed to kill Magical Bobby, and I wish they would have, because he’s given them enough help already. It’s kind of like in Season Three of Star Trek, when there wasn’t anything that Spock couldn’t save the crew of the Enterprise from. It got all too easy at some point, as it has here, and all the urgency and drama just gets sucked right out of the story. And thus the episode ends.
My friend in Alaska has posited the theory that the first episode after every hiatus is lame and that I shouldn’t get my hopes up, on account of I’ll only be disappointed. And while I can’t say I agree with her 100%, this time around, I’ll say I kinda do. Because, like the title of this review says, zombies should be more fun than this.
Now, personally, I’m not in to zombies, but many of my friends are. There’s something about the whole zombie scenario that they like, chief among them, I believe, is that in each zombie story there is a plethora of zombies that can be killed in so many very interesting ways. Zombies shuffle, they come at you, body parts falling off, there’s a never-ending stream of them, and still more than that, coming at you, and you shoot and hack and scream and run, and still they come. And this is fun for zombie lovers, they assure me, it’s death and mayhem and killing and all in the name of saving the world.
So. Show, reflecting perhaps on the popularity of zombies, comes up with a zombie-themed episode and good for them. Many of my peeps were excited, and I was excited for them and prepared myself to be, while not interested in the zombie parts of the ep, but instead, interested in Sam and Dean killing zombies, especially Dean since he has often professed a love of the sport. But oh, man, I was even more bored than the subject ought to have made me because the zombies weren’t very scary or interesting, even for me, a non-zombie fan.
And not only that, the whole episode was about Bobby Singer and who cares about him? When Magical Bobby shows up, my brain turns off. I don’t care about this character; I don’t care about any of his dilemmas. Some people might and good for them. He’s overdone, overused, and I’m over him. Now, before anyone starts flinging hate at me, let me be very clear. Jim Beaver is not the issue. He plays the character just fine, and sometimes has such great lines that he makes me laugh out loud. What I resent is the intrusion of the character of Magical Bobby into a story line that doesn’t need him as much as it has him. I’m so ready for Magical Bobby to die, I cannot even begin to tell you. I wish the zombies had gotten him.
Sylvia Bond is a ten-year technical writing veteran with too many degrees under her belt to count. She lives in Colorado, but does not ski, preferring instead to spend her money and time at the annual Great American Beer Festival, taking road trips across the United States, and reading historical fiction from the comfort of her fluffy green arm chair. She has been involved in fandom since 1993 and been writing fanfic since approximately 1993. What she finds most amazing about fandom (besides the open heartedness of fans and the sheer amount of creativity) is how visible fandom has become. “In my day,” she says, “we had to hide behind P.O. boxes to get fanfic. But nowadays, people wear t-shirts that shout their affiliation and share their shiny toys on the internet.” It’s a wonderful world.
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I was sitting here, all out of sorts because I don't like Tuesdays (or Mondays either), and then I remembered that there was a new episode last week and therefore there was a new Sylvia review up today. So you have improved my day greatly, Sylvia.
As soon as this episode was over, I said to a friend of mine "Sylvia's gonna hate this one". I knew it would exceed your tolerance for Bobby. I agree, there was a lot of him in this one. It didn't bother me too much, mostly because I was so busy trying not to cry, not because of Bobby and his undead wife, but because of Jim Beaver playing the part. That had to hit close to home (not the zombie part, clearly, the wife part). I agree with you that they overuse Bobby shamelessly, and that Show was better in many ways before Bobby showed up. But no more Bobby would mean no more Jim and I wouldn't like that at all. Jim is awesome. I've now typed the word Jim too much and it has ceased to make sense and looks like it's misspelled. Hopefully that's not true.
I am 100% meh about this episode. It didn't move me to any extreme, either love or hate, while I was watching it. Once it was over, and I got to thinking, then it started bothering me.
First of all, when we last saw the intrepid duo, Sam was in the throes of detox, and Dean was outside emoting, in direct contradiction of the "Inside you're already dead" speechifying Famine did just moments before. Suddenly everything is hunky freakin' dory and let's kill us some Zombies!!1! Now, them totally ignoring Sam and his suffering wasn't at all surprising. (Do Guest Towels have feelings?) Nor was their apparent choice to ignore what Famine said, since they'd already done that in the previous episode, not ten minutes after he said it. But the switch in gears from last episode to this one was so grating that my mental transmission was grinding painfully. Then the truth comes out at the con in LA. Someone (and I have to believe that someone had neither seen the two episodes, nor read the scripts) decided to flip flop the previous episode and this one, presumably to end on a more dramatic note before hiatus.
Really. Bad. Idea. Horrible, in fact. If I was interested enough in this episode, I would try watching them in the order they were originally intended to air, and I have a feeling that things would make a LOT more sense. There might even be some foreshadowing of Famine's revelation about Dean's alleged interior state. No more grating contrast between the torment and the relative lightheartedness. No more irritation at them once again trotting Sam out to use as a gigantic plot device. 98% of the issues I had with this episode would have disappeared. But no, we had to get things all out of order and wonky for what amounts to no good reason. It's not like the Olympics suddenly showed up on their doorstep and said "Surprise! We're the Olympics! Can we stay for a few weeks?" They knew that was coming a long time ago, and really, plans should have been made to handle the extra weeks of hiatus in a better way, both to decrease the length of said hiatus, and also to produce enough dramatic tension to satisfy the viewers, without ruining continuity by swapping episodes recklessly. I realize that part of the length of the hiatus was due to Sweeps, but that could have been solved by starting the season later, for starters. Just an epic FAIL on the scheduling/continuity front, in my opinion.
Why so bitter? This episode was supposed to come before MBV but the network switched it because of the hiatus, in case you don't know. That's why there's no continuity. You'd notice there was no follow through for Dean too if you weren't busy trying to make sure it looks like Sam is a total victim of Dean, of the Show, of Kripke and whatever else. Take a deep breath and try not to take it so seriously, or at least get all the facts before you do.
I'm guessing you didn't actually read what I wrote? Because I covered the whole switch, why it was switched (or at least what we assume was the reason), why there was no continuity and the lack of follow through for Dean as well. I'm not sure if you missed all of that, or if I'm misunderstanding what you wrote, but something's not adding up here.
Yeah I missed that sorry. I've been seeing way too many butthurt posts all over the place and it got on my nerve so I jumped the gun.
It's okay, it happens sometimes.
Actually I think it was lengthening of the first hiatus by one week that caused the change. My Bloody Valentine needed to air at the holiday so it got moved forward when the episodes were pushed back after the first hiatus. And it didn't work anymore than switching the order of Mystery Spot and Jus in Bello. Or even worse when the carefree glad to have my brother back Monster Movie was switched to play after the blow-up in Metamorphosis when Dean was already starting to regret being back.
Thank goodness for comments, because it's posts like yours that let me see so much more than I did when I was writing my review. I love the way you cut to the chase and point out things that are so very true, and helps me to be more attentive for the next round.
And yeah, you're right! I didn't like it. Except for the fact that the boys were pretty, there wasn't much to recommend it for me. And I know people like Bobby, and the emo and angst pressed buttons in just the right way, and that's fine, but man, it was hard not to throw something at the TV this week.
I think my TV was glad that it didn't have to cower this week. Though in all fairness, I haven't been moved to any emotional extremes by Show recently, so the poor TV has been safer. And thank you for what you say about comments. One of the things I love about commenting here, aside from the fact that it's a relatively safe haven, is that the comments are serious, and taken seriously by yourself and other posters. That's awesome. : )
The whole flip in the order of the episodes does explain a lot, so thank you for pointing that out to me. Show seems to think this "ending on a high note" will do the trick to bring viewers back, but what about the old "Starting with a bang" trick to intice viewers AFTER the hiatus? Now everything is all caddywumpus, with things being out of order. And not only that, but the discontinuity creates more confusion about what's going on. Like, YEAH, what about that detox that Sam just went through. That's a far more interesting story than MB doing pretty much anything. (Although I do like it when he gets gruff with the boys.) Last we saw, Sam was screaming and carrying on in the basement – so the flip of eps, it's like it never even happend. And that's very disatisfying to me.
Exactly! It's like they think "Whew! We got them hooked to come back after hiatus!" and that's the end of the thought process. I'm not sure why they think they have to hook people to come back anyway. The rabid fans will be there no matter what you air before hiatus, and the casual viewer may or may not come back anyway, regardless of what you leave them with. Show seems to be far too casual, IMO, about flip flopping episodes anyway. On some shows you could get away with that, but given that even a casual standalone on Show tends to have at least one or two scenes or lines that are important to the bigger picture, they really shouldn't do it if it's at all avoidable.
I've given up on them ever showing us any follow through on Sam. At least, any follow through that doesn't involve him being EVOL!!1! After all, they've never even bothered to stop and explain how Ruby got Sam hooked on the blood in the first place. It doesn't matter, because it's about Sam. We get force fed Dean's thoughts and emotions and problems continuously, but God forbid they show us ONE thing about Sam's motivations beyond saving Dean, which, of course, they didn't even let him do. I think one of the best illustrations of this disparity was Sam, Interrupted, the episode with Sam's name right there in the title, in which we got yet another look inside Dean's head and psyche, including another touch on his Daddy issues. Like we didn't already know what was going on in his head. We didn't learn anything new, nothing we didn't know. But no, we had to see it spelled out again. All the while, beyond Sam screwing up for the umpteenth time, we saw nothing of what was going on in Sam's head. Sure, he begged the doctor for another chance (which he screwed up; wasn't his fault, but no one cares), and that he's angry. Ooooh, now that's heavy. Sam is angry. No shit, Sherlock. Who wouldn't be angry in his position?
I seem to recall thinking that Ruby had inticed Sam to drink demon blood and that it would help him by somehow getting him to drink hers…but yeah, how did that go over the first time? I'm thinking that one of the eps would have a clue, back in Season 3 or 4.
You might be right about Show giving up on Sam. It's all about Dean, what Dean is going through, Dean's issues, Dean's problems. Yep, the boy's got 'em, there's no doubt about that. And YES, I'm with you on wanting more about SAM during the episode that had his name in the title. I mean really, the boy was put in four point restraints and almost accidentially killed the doctor who was actually trying to help him. He was practically grovelling for forgiveness there – and at the end of that ep (as you'll recall), when he tried to talk to Dean about it, Dean told him to stuff it down, like Dean supposedly always does. You could have fooled me.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You can't have too much Dean, but there is such a thing as not enough Sam. Although I think you may be dissapointed, that Sam might go EVOL before he goes sweet. But then, he did make a very sexy meatsuit for Lucifer in the "five years in the future" episode. I'm just saying. : D
It's not that I mind Sam going EVOL. As you said, he's very sexy that way, and Jared has mentioned many times that he likes playing that role. It's that the writers seem determined to define Sam, and Sam's worth, by said EVOL potential. Once it's fulfilled, he'll be completely worthless to them, even as a plot device, and I'm scared that he'll either spend whatever time remains after the apocalypse grovelling at Dean's feet for forgiveness or he'll have even less to do onscreen, if that's even possible. After that he'll never be anything more than the loser who gave in to Lucifer, and if the sweetness you mentioned is allowed to return, we won't see enough of it to be worth the whole ordeal.
Of course, grovelling at Dean's feet would be nice. Provided it doesn't go on forever, you know? But I've long felt that what Sam really needs is to confess all and be FORGIVEN. You know how Super Nanny does it? Once you've spent your time in the naughty chair, you get a kiss and a hug and it's all over. There's no lingering guilt or scolding going on, it's over. But yes, you're right, the risk is very high that they'll use Sam up and throw him away. Then he'll become like a Paper Towel instead of a Guest Towel!!!
Exactly. He needs to confess, do some sort of penance and then really and truly believe that he's forgiven. I don't think he's ever going to get that though, even from Dean, who supposedly cares so much about Sam. Or did at one point anyway. And as long as people keep throwing the apocalypse in Sam's face, especially when they choose to throw it in Sam's face only, and ignore the enormous role that Dean played in starting the damn thing, Sam will never be able to let go of the guilt. I have a feeling that Season 6 will be even worse on the Sam front, especially if, or rather, when, he gives in to Lucifer. Because I know he will. He's EVOL, you see, and he's not allowed to do anything besides give in to his evolness. *sigh* And without giving too much away, some of the other things that came out of the LA con, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak, have really made me dread what is to come. That's on all fronts, mind you, not just Sam's part.
Exactly! It's like they think "Whew! We got them hooked to come back after hiatus!" and that's the end of the thought process. I'm not sure why they think they have to hook people to come back anyway. The rabid fans will be there no matter what you air before hiatus, and the casual viewer may or may not come back anyway, regardless of what you leave them with. Show seems to be far too casual, IMO, about flip flopping episodes anyway. On some shows you could get away with that, but given that even a casual standalone on Show tends to have at least one or two scenes or lines that are important to the bigger picture, they really shouldn't do it if it's at all avoidable.
I've given up on them ever showing us any follow through on Sam. At least, any follow through that doesn't involve him being EVOL!!1! After all, they've never even bothered to stop and explain how Ruby got Sam hooked on the blood in the first place. It doesn't matter, because it's about Sam. We get force fed Dean's thoughts and emotions and problems continuously, but God forbid they show us ONE thing about Sam's motivations beyond saving Dean, which, of course, they didn't even let him do. I think one of the best illustrations of this disparity was Sam, Interrupted, the episode with Sam's name right there in the title, in which we got yet another look inside Dean's head and psyche, including another touch on his Daddy issues. Like we didn't already know what was going on in his head. We didn't learn anything new, nothing we didn't know. But no, we had to see it spelled out again. All the while, beyond Sam screwing up for the umpteenth time, we saw nothing of what was going on in Sam's head. Sure, he begged the doctor for another chance (which he screwed up; wasn't his fault, but no one cares), and that he's angry. Ooooh, now that's heavy. Sam is angry. No shit, Sherlock. Who wouldn't be angry in his position?
And Dean does have feelings, perhaps too many of them, right? Like Vulcans, he feels things deeply, I'm thinking, and so has to keep a lid on at all times. Otherwise, it'll just come pouring out of him.
P.S. Guest Towels have feelings too!!! And they're cute.
Guest Towels are very cute. I'm quite fond of them. Particularly Show's set.
I can't decide if it's that Dean has so many feelings, or just that we see them so often that it seems like there's more than there really are. I think I lean toward the latter option. I think Dean has a normal amount of feelings and emotions, it's just the writers fault for trotting them out on an endless parade.
“I am 100% meh about this episode. It didn’t move me to any extreme, either love or hate, while I was watching it. Once it was over, and I got to thinking, then it started bothering me. ”
This is EXACTLY the way I felt. My problem was more the logistics of the whole zombie infestation though. Even if there were only 15 to 20 zombies (although there looked like a whole lot more when they were attacking at the Salvage yard) that’s still potentially 40 to a couple hundred people who would know that people were rising from the dead. And all those people were *okay* with that? No one read Pet Cemetery or The Monkey’s Paw or watched any zombie flick? No one called the local paper or 20/20? And then, when zombie boy was sick, the sheriff called her pediatrician, who thought nothing was wrong? Dead boy has strange fever…hmmm…methinks that would merit a trip to the local ER. Even if he didn’t know the kid was already dead…strange high fever in a normal child? Still a trip to the local clinic or ER. And all of those zombies…did they all eat their families? Because that’s the only way there were maybe a dozen men (and maybe one woman?) that ended up at the jail with the sheriff after they “rounded up everyone for safety”. Definitely no kids around. Those poor kids of zombie #1.
A couple more problems: Sioux Falls is a city. This would have made more sense if it took place in a tiny town, population under 2,000 people. Zombies pay taxes? Really? And the pie thing? It was overdone. Was zombie Karen baking for a zombie bakesale? Who knew that Bobby had enough fruit on hand to make a few dozen pies!
I knew the episodes had been reversed, but that’s still no reason for something that felt kind of, well, unfinished. Again, I didn’t hate it, I just had too many questions to enjoy it. And I find that really frustrating.
Oh, you make me laugh! Where did all the zombies come from? There are far too many than can be accounted for, especially if they're all men! You get the gold star, becuase my math is horrible, and I couldn't make sense of it. I knew there would be zombie fans out there keeping track. Not to mention, the sherrif's office has like 10 people, so do all those people have only male relatives living with them? It might be a zombie scenario, but there's still internal logic that needs to be attended to.
I was going to say something about all the risen dead in town being male and (with two exceptions–baby sheriff and creepy old lady) apparently in good shape and between the ages of 24 and 55, but it seemed like the original post was getting long. But really! THAT alone should raise some suspicions among the gullible towsfolk. And they KNOW that one killed his murderer right off the bat…so you’d think that anyone who’d pissed off any of the newly risen dead would be getting a little nervous and calling in some higher authorities…
See? Every time I start thinking, something new comes up. Frustrating!
I think we were supposed to believe that the families were so happy to have their loved ones back that they didn't question it at all – I would have been happier had there been an aside to the likes of "some kind of black devil magic made them more open to having a dead body walking around in their house." Something to explain that, you know? And oh yeah. The kid had a temperature of 111, as I recall. Kids can take higher temperatures than adults to be sure, but at 111? You're right. It's time to go to the hosptial. Except the kid is already dead so….and words fail me at this point. : D
Well, there’s happy and there’s stupid. And these people went a little beyond that! I would have been happier if Death had laid some kind of spell on the town. It would have made many of the issues less problematic.
I’m not sure a temperature of 111 is humanly possible. I think brain damage sets in around 106, so that pediatrician? Should be fired!
(ooh, and thanks for the gold star!)
Yes! I thought the same thing about the pediatrician. The only thing I could figure was that the good doctor had a zombie of his own and so he knew that the patient in question was undead and so he wasn't as concerned. Then again, the undead should be cool, so a temp of 111 would be alarming in a zombie too.
People keep telling me I shouldn't care so much or take it so seriously, but like you, I had unanswered questions, and felt the whole thing was whacked, but not in a good way. I thought the pie thing was over done too (no pun intended), and at one point when the zombie hoard came in, and the camera glances over all those pies? I thought, oh, NO, they're going to have a pie fight, which really would have jumped the shark. Luckily, the pies were just pies……
Zombie pie fight! How did they resist the temptation?
Exactly my question!
Zombie pie fight. I almost wish they hadn't resisted. That would have been AWESOME. Can you imagine the look on Dean's face? Pie is almost sacred to him, he wouldn't like it being wasted that way. Poor Dean, it would have been almost traumatizing.
You asked me to drop you a line if I knew how MB helped Sam say No. I don't think he did, I think it was Bobby's own interpretation. You could see he was pissed at the boys especially Sam. So much for his saying what he did in Episode One how nothing would make him hate Sam. I also don't think Bobby is helping Dean say No to Michael. I think his character has dragged on too long. Why haven't he and the boys made copies of the pages of his copy of Revelation so they don't have to call him every time for help. I hate the let's call Bobby for help story and have since early season 3. Thanks for giving me a chance to rant a little on this subject where it is safe to do so.
And then the whole thing where Zombie Karen tells Dean he doesn't know anything about love? Bull poop. Dean knows all about love, all the time, that's why the AA Mike wants him as his meatsuit because Dean loves in such a selfless, save the whole world kind of way, he's the only one who can do it. So credit where credit's due – I really hated the fact that the script had him agreeing to that!
Sometimes there just aren't enough words in a review (or enough time) to get everything down, so thank you for this opportunitity to rant some more!
P.S. I really love your idea of the boys making copies of MB's books; that'd save a lot of time, in the long run. And no more wasted tanks of gas driving up to MB's place!
Hi, Silvia
Welcome back! I feel like weeping with happiness everytime I read your reviews, because this is the only place where someone still remembers that Sam exists. Who needs Sam when there is Castiel and Castiel is SO awesome, with his comic lines and his hamburguers. But Castiel took a day off here so I’ll leave him alone.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Bobby is cool. Also, he was supportive of Sam when no one else was and I’m always grateful when someone is nice to Sam. But I liked him a lot better when he was a supporting character that made occasional appearances to give the boys some needed help. But a Bobby-centered episode after a painful 6-week hiatus, especially when there is so much to be resolved between the BOYS? Seriously?
Weep no more, the hiatus is over! : D
And the Soap Angel has his moments, oh, yes, his comic timing with the cellphone is not to be missed. But, just like salt, too many feathers will make you sneeze, so…
Okay, so fill me in. When was MB supportive of Sam? I mean, not in a general way, but specifically. Like there's a conversation you're remembering that I'm not? (Because yeah, if he was nice to Sam, I want to thank him for that!)
And oh, I love how you put it! Why have a MB episode when there's so much that needs to be said between Sam and Dean!!!
LOL, Sylvia. Actually I'm being ironic about Castiel. I'm not one of his fans and not even in an alternate universe he would replace Sam (at least to my taste).
About Bobby being supportive of Sam. In Lazarus Rising he actually yelled at Dean for acting John-like and pushing Sam away. Dean had his reasons to be pissed then, but I applauded Bobby anyway. Then, at the end of No Sympathy For The Devil (an episode I have no sympathy for), he told Sam he would never turn his back in him, or something like that. I'm particularly grateful for the last, because it made Sam bless our eyes with one of those so incredibly GORGEOUS smiles of his, which is so rare these days. I strongly recommend that you check this out.
If only we could have had some interaction between Bobby and BOTH boys. Sam saved the day here – as he did in The Curious Case of Dean Winchester and My Bloody Valentine – but no one could care less. It was all about Bobby-angst and how close he is to Dean. By the way, everyone is close to Dean: Bobby, Ellen, Jo, Castiel. And before someone thinks of throwing stones at me, I LOVE Dean, I really, really do. But there are two leads, not only one. All Sam had was Ruby, and everyone knows how it ended up (I mean in the Show, because in real life Genevieve is a very lucky girl, hee, hee…)
To summarize, what I mean is that we need DEAN AND SAM, not Dean and Bobby or Dean and Castiel. How about their damaged relationship? Don’t tell me they’re good because they’re far from that. Why are we concentrating on Bobby and the threats to Bobby when there are so many threats to the relationship that used to be the heart and soul of the Show?
I guess I won’t make many friends with my comments. Bobby and Castiel have many fans and I respect that. But this is a place to express opinions and this is mine. No offence intended.
This is such a good point, thank you for taking time to post it. I have never really gotten the feeling that MB is an adequate replacement for The Dad in Dean's life, so it always squicks me when Dean throws out "he's like a father to us" at Sam. If Dean were to say "he's like a father to me" I could almost take that; Dean likes having someone in that role in his life and good for him. But I've really never seen any evidence that MB plays a father role to Sam. And not just because orignially when Dean drove him and Sam to South Dakota and it seemed at the time that Sam had NO idea who MB was, no. But since then, the conversations between Sam and MB have been short, not very sweet, and painfully efficient. I see no familial relationship between them whatsoever.
And then there's the whole other issue you bring up. Sam saves the day over and over and over and over and OVER, and never ever ever ever ever ever EVER gets any credit, let alone any screen time to thank him for it. It's like he's invisible when he's not on screen, and he's not really visible when he's there. It just make me shudder to realize how easily Sam could be written out of the storyline at this point. Twice in this ep, Dean insists on rescuing MB from zombies. Twice, Sam realizes his responsibility is a little bit wider. I think the boys in their second dither in the car have this conversation where the undertones are Dean saying, "I'm going to rescue MB now," and Sam going, "Uh, I think he's pretty capable of rescuing himself, Dean." Which I agree.
You are so right. It's the Sam and Dean show, and the other characters are secondary and we shouldn't be spending so MUCH time on MB or anyone else, when Sam and Dean's relationship is so mangled. Oh, for the old days. OH, for Season One and Season Two!!!
PS, and if you don't like a character like MB or the Soap Angel, you are perfectly within your rights to feel that way.
While I like Bobby a lot, and really REALLY don't want him to die, he isn't a Winchester so his issues will always take a back seat for me. __Anyway, I think part of the purpose of this episode was to show that part of Lucifer's plan is to completely isolate Sam. We know from "The End" that Sam said yes partly because he was so alone, so it makes sense that Lucifer would go after anyone giving Sam support. Also, even though the zombies didn't kill Bobby, he now has another thing to blame the Winchesters for. I think it could be interesting if Bobby were to turn his back on them. __
Oh. Oh. OH. What a terrifically good point, that the whole thing is to isolate Sam…..Oh, man, do I like the way you think. Because it's true. Sam has been isolated for ever so long, and this is just another brick in the wall to send him on his way. Poor Sammy…it's been a long, lonely road for him thus far, and if you are right (which I think you are) it's only going to get worse. But. Need it be said that I will only be satified and mollified and made happy if at the end we get a really really nice rewnewal of faith for Sam, and a reconnection with Dean in all the right ways. And finally, give the boy some joy!!!
I am slightly hesitant to write this, but here goes. I feel as if Dean has become somewhat ineffectual as of late. In "My Bloody Valentine" he went to kill Famine (and save Sam) but didn't even come close. In fact he just stood around looking shell shocked. He was rescued by Sam, who also took out Famine and saved the town. In this episode his one goal was to save Bobby, leaving Sam to save everyone else. But Bobby killed his zombie wife by himself, and then Sam came in and rescued both Dean and Bobby. Heck, even in "The Song Remains the Same" he wasn't able to save anyone, Michael did. Now I don't know if they are trying to make a point, but I am more that ready for some kick-butt Dean. (As long as we get to keep bad-ass Sam as well).
Yes and yes! Kick-butt Dean has been missing! I almost referred to him several times as the damsel in distress. In all the eps you mentioned, Dean goes in to save the day and ends up needing rescuing by Sam. Sam is the only one who is keeping Dean on his radar, and focuses on keeping Dean safe. If Dean is going to save the world, then Dean needs to be kept safe. Sam's got enough altruism going to realize that the needs of the many (the world) outweigh his own needs, and thus, Dean needs looking after. And Sam's got the strength to do it, and the ability to take it up a notch (with the demon blood infusion) when need be. But in addition to that…seriously people. Dean is a hunter of the first water and certainly has more ability than he's been recently shown to have. When was the last time we saw him succeeding at this? Or, as you pointed out, is this ineffectualness of Dean's a way to isolate him and break him down?
And thank you for coming by to rant! I think a character like MB is like salt. Salt is good, salt is necessary for life, but too much salt and you can't eat the food. Lots of people like MB and that's totally fine, but enough is enough. The boys used to be much more self sufficient than this, and I prefer them that way. So enough of him already.
As to the supposed help MB gave to the boys? Well, I'd say his assistance to the boys in general might piss something supernatural off, but I don't think MB has ANYTHING to do with either Dean or Sam saying no to their respective proposed meatsuit duties. So thank you for your support on that, because I was wracking my brain trying to remember when MB had EVER helped Sam on that regard, and I couldn't come up with a thing.
Well, it's a different point of view. It hadn't occurred to me. I suppose you could be right, much to my sadness. If so, the only redeeming element about the whole matter is Sam's smile…
Exactly. MB doesn't care about Sam as much as he cares about Dean, at least that's what his past behavior has shown me.
But at least we have Sam. And that smile. : D
Sometimes…Sam's smile is ALL we have. But at least we have that. And his eyes…
The smile and the DIMPLES! Let´s not forget about the dimples. Oh, yes, yes! His catlike eyes. And obviously the Samhair.
Atta girl!!!
Well, he wasn't in this episode. I'd give him many other days off but it's not up to me to decide.
Yeah, but the problem there is, even if MB was being supportive of Sam, it was in a roundabout way because he was yelling at Dean to be a better man. He was concerned with what was going on with Dean, not necessarily being supportive of Sam. I think he might have spoken five whole words to Sam during that ep. As for NSFTD, I thought, yeah, it was nice of MB to say that (and the smile was brilliant, yes!), but one sentence directed at Sam from MB does not really support Sam. It was just a bandaid…(and yeah, I'll check it out, just to be sure).
Yeah, but the problem there is, even if MB was being supportive of Sam, it was in a roundabout way because he was yelling at Dean to be a better man. He was concerned with what was going on with Dean, not necessarily being supportive of Sam. I think he might have spoken five whole words to Sam during that ep. As for NSFTD, I thought, yeah, it was nice of MB to say that (and the smile was brilliant, yes!), but one sentence directed at Sam from MB does not really support Sam. It was just a bandaid…(and yeah, I'll check it out, just to be sure).
So, basically you don't like anyone who isn't Dean and Sam. You don't like Bobby. You don't like Castiel. Do you like any of the side characters? Seriously, the show has to have other characters. Yes, Sam and Dean are the headliners of the show, but the show can't always focus on them in every single episode.
Basically, yes.
I think you've hit the nail right on the head there. I do like Sam and Dean better than any other character on the show, bar none. And yes I think Show should focus on them most of the time, because it's the Sam and Dean Show, not the Dean-and-a-secondary character show, in my book.
In Season One and Two it was all Sam and Dean all the time, and those seasons were awesome. They struggled, they did things wrong it was exciting. Having it be so easy for them (with MB and the Soap Angel being around all the time) makes it boring.
As for secondary characters, in past reviews I have raved about various characters such as John and Mary, and Madison, and Sarah, and the doctor from My Bloody Valentine, and Joseph Welch, who Sam interviewed about his wife who committed suicide in the Pilot episode. I liked Jerry from Phantom Traveler. I liked the sheriff from this episode.
Oddly, secondary characters I've liked or connected with usually end up dying and I don't know why that is.
I agree, seasons 1 and 2 were stronger because they were focused on Sam and Dean. I loved that they had to mostly figure things out for themselves.
"In Season One and Two it was all Sam and Dean all the time, and those seasons were awesome." That's my point too. Seasons 1-3 were all about the boys and I have never heard any complaints about they being boring. There were some awesome guest actors and actresses. They had some great interaction with the boys and some of the most memorable episodes in the series were produced. But in the end they always left and it was only the boys. And that felt so right because there was something magical about their relationship and no one else was really necessary. Let's consider A Very Supernatural Christmas, to take just one example. The ending was SO perfect, so completely perfect. Try to insert a Bobby or a Castiel in there and you would just ruin it.
Well, for some reason I am having issues posting tonight so I will try for the third time now.
Things I loved:
1). Our boys are back! Sam and Dean are still SEXY as HELL!! SMOKING HOT!!
2). The blood splatter, on the camera lens, was a neat touch and way cool.
3). The Sam BITCHFACE was back in all it's glory.
4). Dean was eating again and it was pie!
5). The shootout in the junkyard was awesome as was the scene when the zombies picked the lock.
6). I have to say again….our boys are back! The freaking hiatus is over.
Things I did not enjoy:
1). I have had enough of the hiatuses. Way too many and they are so frustrating.
2). I am getting tired of being disappointed with the episodes after the break. Why can't they ever be as great as the episodes which occur right before the break?
3). I wanted more angst and pain and more action
4). Why did they not discuss the fallout from Famine's appearance? The detox..the horror….the desperation… seriously did they think we would just forget about all of that because the show was on such a long and painful break? I want closure and answers and more character exploration.
Sylvia, I am so glad I can come here again and share all of this with you and our fellow fan girls but this episode left me wanting more.
Oh well…I can only hope this week's show makes me want to put together a list because I wasn't all that excited about putting one together for this particular episode. I did not hate it but I did not love it either.
Take care,
Joan
PS….I hope my other comments don't magically appear….:-) I tried posting them several hours ago but I still haven't seen them.
Oh, Joan!!! We are lucky to have the boys back! And looking so fine, might I add. I thought they were pretty, but then I always do. I was enchanted with Sam's shirt and how it made his eyes ever so green. And Dean, when he eats pie or thinks about eating pie, he gets this beatific expression on his face that just lights him up from within. Ahhhhhhh. : D
#2 The blood spatter on the camera lens! I'm pretty sure it wasn't intentional but then someone got very smart and decided to keep it in and I'm glad they did.
#2A – You forgot to mention that the blood spatter came from Sam saving the day! Go Sammy!
Second list…
#3. Yes, and ditto that. I always want that. There's never enough of that.
#4. Yes! Holy cow! What could be more important than Sam's detox? We heard the poor boy screaming….how long did it take him to get better?
I think your sentiments were expressed by a lot of people. Sure it's great to have the boys back after the hiatus, but…it wasn't a great episode that made you glad you waited, you know? Here's to hoping this week makes you feel more passionate about your list. : D
PS Sorry you had trouble posting – I did too, today, I couldn't post a long comment to save my life.
Excellent review, as always, Sylvia! I do like my Bobby, but small doses are always better. Unless they finally decide he can talk to Sam. I'd pay to see someone talk to Sam at this point. I also don't understand why Sam can't have friends and family, too. What is so wrong with Sam that the writers won't allow him to build relationships with anyone on screen? Oh, right, he had demon blood in him, or he drinks it, or he has psychic powers. Basically, the show is a racist, prejudiced slap against the Sam that has that little drop of demon blood in him. It's been a really disappointing ride since Dean made his deal for Sam, not out of love, but because he lacks self-love or something equally pathetic. Ever since then, only Dean's feelings, thoughts, and words are treated as if they matter. Sam is a second class (or is that third class now?) citizen in a two person family. And that, dear friends, is the true horror and tragedy of Supernatural.
Although I think it was Kamm who said that perhaps Show was isolating Sam for a purpose, so that he'd be more susceptible to Lucifer? True? Or are we just looking for reasons to explain this Samless desert we find ourselves in?
Oh my.
Thank you for the nice comment about my review, I appreciate it.
And Bobby, oh dear. He was such nice seasoning back in the day, something we got every now and then. But now it's too much.
And I like the way you explain it, that no one is talking to Sam, and that only Dean's thoughts and feelings are treated as if they matter. It feels like that has been going on for some time now…Not that Dean's thoughts and feelings aren't interesting, because they are. I love the fact that he's not given into the AA Mike, and that he's still fighting the good fight and all…but I'm waiting for it to be Sam's turn. And I've been waiting. As have you. He just keeps getting the smack down and now it seems to have gone beyond my just saying, "Hey, I'm a Samgirl, I want more Sam." Now…it's to the point where I can't even begin to explain it to myself or justify it in regards to the storyline. Now it's just getting weird.
Although I think it was Kamm who said that perhaps Show was isolating Sam for a purpose, so that he'd be more susceptible to Lucifer? True? Or are we just looking for reasons to explain this Samless desert we find ourselves in?
Well said, Sadie! No truer words were ever written. I am so sick of the way Show keeps isolating Sam. And sorry to report from the spoilers I have been reading and for the 100th episode which again will feature Dean once again., it doesn't get any better. Sylvia, it seems your Polyanna hat seems finally to be falling off. Welcome to my world and I am sorry for that.
I agree, Tonia. The spoilers for the 100th episode are disappointing but not surprising. OK, I'll concede that for the sake of storytelling this episode needs (??) to be more Dean-centered. But then we should have one or two Sam-centered episodes to counterbalance, right? Wrong. Instead, we're treated to a Bobby-centered episode right after the hiatus, with Dean as the second lead and Sam as set decoration. The fact that he saved the day is just a detail. By the way, I guess they only had him save the town to keep him busy so Bobby and Dean could enjoy their time together. Also, since Castiel was not available to be the hero, Sam had to play the part.
IN MBV, Sam saved both Dean and Castiel, not to mention the whole town, with a terrible cost to himself. He was looked at as a freak by his brother, locked up and had to suffer the hell of detox. Did anyone care about him? No. Everybody was like: Oh God, Dean is dead inside!
You're more generous than I am, Andrea. I concede nothing of the sort about the 100th episode. It's the 100th episode. For it to be another Dean extravaganza is not just ridiculous, it's a slap in the face to Jared and his character, and the fans that aren't Dean crazy. They can pretend that the show's success is solely Jensen and Dean's doing, but they're deluding themselves.
Whiskey, I love it how determined you are to defend Jared! And you give me more credit than I deserve. I'm not generous at all, I'm just making a weak try. To tell the truth, I'm pissed. And yes, I kind of feel slapped in the face and ashamed for Jared's sake. You have a point too: if the Jensen/Dean show is all that matters, why are the ratings so disappointing if you compare them with those of season 1 and 2?
LOL, thank you. I'm sure he doesn't really need my fierce defense. He's a strapping man after all, but I can't help it. I've been a fan for a long time, and Jared has never been anything but kind and generous to me so why wouldn't I defend him?
Hey, at least you're trying. I gave up on even doing that much a long time ago. The only thing I content myself with is that Jared seems to be a very happy newlywed, so he's probably not overly concerned with Sam being left out of, or minimized, in the 100th episode. But I still feel like it's a huge smack down for the fans, and that's not right. It seems to me that the powers that be are putting all their butter on one side of the toast, and they'd better hope that if they drop it, that toast lands butter side up, because the other side won't be any help to them after the way it has been treated. Now I want toast.
Whiskey, I love it how determined you are to defend Jared! And you give me more credit than I deserve. I'm not generous at all, I'm just making a weak try. To tell the truth, I'm pissed. And yes, I kind of feel slapped in the face and ashamed for Jared's sake. You have a point too: if the Jensen/Dean show is all that matters, why are the ratings so disappointing if you compare them with those of season 1 and 2?
I’ve said it a gazillion times before and I’ll repeat it just in case, for the sake of Dean fans that are reading us. I’m not, by any means, anti-Dean. I’m a samgirl but I’m not asking for a Sam-based show. All I ask for is a bi-bro show. Is it too much?
Frankly, I like Dean, but I am bored to tears by the character on every single level. Dean's been awash in tears since John died, while Sam has emotionally crippled himself to prop him up. Dean is the last character on the show I feel sorry for. I've got compassion fatigue. And maybe that wouldn't matter if Sam was treated like a true lead character and was treated like a hero when he does heroic things. Dean sells his soul and gets treated like the world's greatest hero and martyr for it. That is simply BS, plain and simple. Dean made a business deal with a terrible price; he was no POW, sorry. Dean is the only character on the show with outside friends and family, who has fun, who does what he wants when he wants to (food, drink, sex) to such a degree that supernatural creatures can't even begin to influence him – um, wow, is all I can say to that one. Dean is being fought over by angels and demons alike, while Sam is ignored by everyone. You know what, I feel sorry for the character being emotionally crippled just so his BIG brother can always have a shoulder to cry on, which he does pretty much every single episode at this point. I feel sorry for the character who doesn't seem to even know what fun is, and that is Sam. I feel sorry for the character who prays, but whose prayers are never acknowledged on the show. I feel sorry for the character who has one bad year (or two, if you count season 3), and has had his entire life of love, heroism, and sacrifice discounted because of it, by his own brother no less, let alone the hater audience. The tragedy is that Sam is Dean's Dean, and everyone hates him for it, including Dean.
Oh my.
Thank you for the nice comment about my review, I appreciate it.
And Bobby, oh dear. He was such nice seasoning back in the day, something we got every now and then. But now it's too much.
And I like the way you explain it, that no one is talking to Sam, and that only Dean's thoughts and feelings are treated as if they matter. It feels like that has been going on for some time now…Not that Dean's thoughts and feelings aren't interesting, because they are. I love the fact that he's not given into the AA Mike, and that he's still fighting the good fight and all…but I'm waiting for it to be Sam's turn. And I've been waiting. As have you. He just keeps getting the smack down and now it seems to have gone beyond my just saying, "Hey, I'm a Samgirl, I want more Sam." Now…it's to the point where I can't even begin to explain it to myself or justify it in regards to the storyline. Now it's just getting weird.
I had a blast reading your review!
Thank you, dear!
Wow,it's nice to have a safe haven to say, 'I agree 100%!'. I won't repeat what was said, but I will illustrate my point – I read some other reactions to the jarring inconsistency between the end of the last episode before hiatus and this one – most people complained about it because this one didn't address DEAN'S lack of appetite for anything! They complained that there was no follow up to what Famine said to Dean. No mention of Sam being in a panic room, for crying out loud, and screaming his way through detox. Typical, and it saddens me greatly.
Also, thank you SO much for pointing out how all the peripheral characters have relationships with Dean and not Sam. Wouldn't it have been cool to have Sam stay with Bobby in this episode for a change? Dean is the one who calls Bobby a surrogate father and I was a bit surprised that in this episode Dean even included Sam in his speech to Bobby when he said 'they wouldn't let anything happen to him because they consider him family'. I about dropped my remote because I fully expected Dean to just say 'I' there.
Even Sam comforted Dean after Jo and Ellen died – what about Sam? He knew them, right? The Bobby thing – I am so over him, I was over him a few seasons ago and frankly, he bores me to tears. Notice how the emotional 'nice' scene he had with Sam were when he wasn't really Bobby, but the Trickster?
I did come up with a theory – the story is really being told, emotionally, through Dean – hence we get to go inside his psyche over and over. Sam is a plot device in some ways – he is on the outside since he was always the outcast; not wanting to hunt, going to college, being dragged back in, having demon blood, being the YED's target, etc.
And this is all well and good,but they have underserved Sam's character for not even trying to develop his inner world and also for not showing it to us, the viewers.
I won't even go into my theory about why Dean was inserted into the mytharc at the beginning of fourth season for fear of having metaphorical knives thrown at me
I guess I did need to rant a bit
Suffice it to say, I agree with your review and also with a lot of the comments here. It's a relief to have a place to say these things without fear of being crucified by the predominantly Dean slanted fandom. I never liked Castiel and never will; I am tired of Bobby, I never liked Ellen or Jo or Bela, I really dislike the Ghostfacers and their hijacking of two episodes (that's two hours of precious screen time that could have been for the boys), I don't care about Rufus or Anna or any angels actually. I liked Ruby because at least she interacted with Sam, but I hated what she was doing.
I still love my show though, lol, because it is still about the brothers and even though it didn't go the way I would have wanted, I still live and die with what happens to those precious boys
You are more than welcome for the safe haven. Everyone's opinion is welcome and everyone pretty much behaves like an adult, so you're good to go, no matter who's your fave. : D
I too do not understand why Sam's issues aren't being dealt with at all. We get an entire ep devoted to MB and his zombie wife, but nothing, zip, zero, nada, about Sam going into detox for his demon blood addiction. It's like he's all alone with no one to count on but himself. (I know about the flip in eps, but as someone pointed out, Show knew a long time coming about the Olympics, and could have planned better. Plus, now…it's already in the past, and so who cares about Sam, right?)
The whole, "Bobby is family," thing just kills me, but did you notice that when Dean says it to Sam, Sam doesn't say anything back, like, "Yeah, you're right," or "Okay, there's that, but…." No, instead he brushes Dean off without really saying anything, but his actions speak very loudly indeed – he goes to save the town, to save a bunch of people while Dean concentrates his efforts (twice!) on saving just one person. So is there a moral here, or a parallel with something like "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one, but sometimes it's the other way around?" Or is it trying to prove a point that a single sheep is sometimes worth more than the whole herd? If there is a moral or a point, it's way too subtle for me at this point.
Bobby definitely has better and more intense relations with Dean than he does with Sam. Heck the only time Bobby's really talked to Sam is when Bobby was possessed, so it wasn't really him talking! Bobby talks to Dean, his comments are addressed to Dean, his actions and reactions are all ABOUT Dean, and between Sam and Bobby there is a vast wasteland and very little conversation. On purpose? Or just the result of a Dean-driven plot?
So your theory has merit, because Sam (as a set of Guest Towels) has become a plot device to be easily sent off stage left when the story doesn't call for him, and when he returns, there's no real explanation as to what happened to him or where he went. And maybe you're right, he's always been the outcast, so why should that change now?
I'd love to hear your ideas about why Dean was inserted as he was into the major mytharc. Maybe it was the plan all along, and I get that, but why does it have to mean that Sam becomes far less significant than even that would call for?
I'm not sure why it's like that, where people can't express their opinion. They could sure do it here, and they could probably get people to agree with them on some things.
I agree with you on the list of secondary characters, although I did like Ellen and Jo because they seemed a bit more organic and less intrusive than Magical Bobby or the Soap Angel. My jury is still out on the Ghostfacers gang, although, yes, HIJACK!! Entire Episodes! What's up with that?
Long live Sam and Dean!
I'm not the OP, obviously, but I have a theory about Dean's sudden epic role in the mytharc, and I'm curious to see if sgfe's is similar.
My theory? It's not the Dean show, it's the Jensen show. Bear with me. I have NOTHING against Jensen. He's certainly VERY talented, to a nearly disgusting level. He's certainly gorgeous (nigh unto breathtaking, especially in person). And everything I've ever heard about him, as well as the very, very limited personal experience I have indicates that he's a very nice person. Smart, funny (having excellent taste in comedy routines, given his habit of imitating Eddie Izzard's head shaking bit), and sweet. This is not a diatribe against him, nor do I intend to bash him at all. He definitely doesn't deserve that. I also don't blame him for the way that the show treats Sam, or the way that fandom treats Jared, even if it is his fans that usually lead the mob in Jared bashing. None of that is his fault.
Since it became obvious that the majority, or certainly the most vocal portion, of fandom was going bonkers for Jensen, and Jensen plays Dean, boom, we suddenly get the Dean show. If the casting had remained the way it was when Jensen auditioned, I have a concrete belief that we'd be watching the Sam show right now. It's not about the character, it's about the actor, and fandom's very over the top reaction to him. Which is all well and good, but this show was not created, or presented, as the Dean Winchester extravaganza. So to suddenly shift focus from the brothers as a unit to The Dean Variety Hour is unfair, disingenuous, and disloyal to the other portion of fandom who doesn't worship at Jensen's feet. Not only is Sam a second, or even third class citizen, and by extension Jared too, but the fans that choose to favor Sam and Jared are also demoted. Suddenly, just because I support the "wrong" brother, I no longer matter. What I want, what I like, what I dislike, none of that matters. And it's not like I'm out here asking for something bizarre, and I'm not alone in what I want, so it's not just me that they're ignoring, it's all of the fans that aren't over the moon about the all Dean all the time show. Which is why the show hasn't gotten a dime of my money in a very long time, and won't get another one until they change. If I'm not good enough for them, my money's too good for them.
I doubt that things will change like we'd like them to, because I think you are right. Ackles is so talented and pretty and TALENTED, it'd be awfully hard for someone out there not to notice, in fact, they'd have to be blind not to. We're just lucky that Show snapped him up before anyone did notice, because otherwise, we'd be sadly Deanless, and weeping, weeping because Sam would have no brother, and there would be no story to tell. And I think the shift in focus you describe is based on the fact that Show figured out what a hot commodity it had, and, yeah, that's worth money to them. Money in the bank for lots and lots of people. Sadly that means not only less Sam, but less balance, as you say, turning into the Dean Extravaganza Variety Hour, which is lovely to look at, but not what we signed up for! Brothers, on the road, saving people, hunting things, and how can it get any simpler than THAT???
We're very lucky that Show found him first, because in the hands of pretty much anyone else, Dean would be a rather one note character. I give Jensen the credit for Dean's depth and nuance and emotion, not the writers. So I'm very, very glad that he found his way into the role.
The thing is though, I'm not sure that the fabulous Dean show is making them so much more money than the way things were before. It brought the show some attention that it might not have gotten otherwise, and it may have brought in a few advertising dollars. But Show's reliant on the fans, the die hard, hard core, rabid fans that watch faithfully every week, and download episodes (legally of course). The huge fan conventions rake in the dough as well. But the fans would still do all of those things if the Show had never changed format. Which is essentially what it did. It went from a show about two brothers, to a show about Dean with Sam in the background. So I'm not so convinced that they did themselves that many favors with the switch, especially since they're running the real risk of alienating a good, if quiet, portion of their fanbase permanently. They might think they can afford to do that now, when things seem okay ratings wise, though really, the ratings this season haven't been very good, but what about if the critics turn on them? The casual viewers disappear? Suddenly they're back to just the fans. Only they don't have as many of them as they used to have, because they threw all the ones who didn't worship Dean and drool over Castiel aside and basically said "Screw you". It might never come to that, but it's a risk they're taking, and at this point, after being ignored and belittled for going on two years, I'm starting to hope it does happen just to teach them all a lesson on how you can cut off your nose to spite your face.
It's interesting that you think Sam (and by consequence, Padalecki) becomes a second-class citizen, and are treated badly by Deanfans and Acklesfans. I would like to say I've not seen any of that (Padalecki's following seems pretty intense and passionate, from where I'm sitting, and the boy is not lacking in kudos of his own). And he's talented as all hell, but in a different way. A more subtle, less sparkly way; he uses his body to convey meaning (and humor) so cleverly, even the lack of dialog doesn't seem to be holding him back from shining in the role of Sam, the forgotten brother.
Oh Jared's fans are still here all right, and still behind him. And passionate, yes. He himself is definitely talented, and he has improved his craft 100 fold since Show started. Just like I would cringe to see Dean in less talented hands, the same goes for Sam. In someone else's hands, he would have already disappeared. He's doing the most he can with the little he's given.
But his fans are treated badly by the other side of things, definitely. Not here so much, though you'll notice how quickly and vocally even a comment here will get attacked if it's seen as being "Mean to Dean". Other places aren't so nice though. We're called whiners, moaners, told to stop watching, quit taking it seriously, to shut up and watch the show as it's being presented, etc. Jared himself is attacked, fairly regularly, which has always both angered and amused me. Surely those fans don't think that Jensen would want them to go after his costar that way, not when they're friends, but it doesn't stop them. Sam can't take a breath onscreen without catching hell for something. Everything he does is wrong, even when he barely does anything at all. It's definitely a case of the haves and have nots, with Sam/Jared fans being the latter. The haves are getting exactly what they want and come across as though that makes them superior to the fans who don't like the way things are going. It might be a LITTLE better now, as more and more people are growing dissatisfied with one aspect or another. But at the first, it was harsh, and unrelenting.
Tell me about it. I'm officially done with posting and even reading posts. This is the only place where I still do it. There's nothing wrong in being a Dean fan – how could it? Look at the guy. But many of his fans take it to an almost religious level. Any word of criticism will be taken as blasphemy and treated as such. As for Jared, you won't believe – or maybe you will – the crap you hear. Some people not only bash Sam the character, but also Jared as a person. I had the bad luck to enter a site the other day where the webmistress won't even say Jared's name. She refers to him as "the other one". Come on. To be a fan is one thing, but there's a limit beyond which you can start talking about sickness. Jensen doesn't deserve nor need that. He doesn't need Jared to be diminished and bashed so he can look wonderful. He shines by himself.
But, yes, from time to time, someone will comment to ask why I'm not evaluating Dean's character (and thusly Ackle's performance) to the extent that I'm evaluating Sam's, and then complain that the focus is too much on Sam! Someone (nicely, I thought) tried to explain how Ackle's performance was just as compelling as Padalecki's and oughten I to give that more attention?
I've never felt emboldened enough to state very clearly how many other reviews are out there that are Dean-centric and if they wanted that, then they can go there, because surely they could figure that out for themselves, and because usually the comments are nice, and honestly, I think it puzzles some people why it seems to be more about Sam than Dean for me. (It's not, as you know, I divide my attention and try to make sure there are as many pics of EACH boy in EACH review…but apparently my diligent efforts are lost on some readers.)
What beguiles me further is their insistance that I do this thing, that I shift my focus back to Dean, with the implication that he is a far more worthy subject for my writing. I usually want to say, if you want Dean reviewed THAT much? Then write your own reviews! But, more seriously than that is the idea that I'm supposed to write what someone else thinks I should, which is never going to happen, because I do enough of that at work. But back to the idea of Sam as second-class citizen…I'm fully confident that even there was an attempt by some fans to do this to Padalecki, he's got enough confidence and style to ignore the idiots who don't know any better.
Or if they want Dean reviewed THAT much, go read any one of a hundred other sites and fansites where that's exactly what happens. That's the reason you're the only reviewer I read. You don't forget that there are TWO brothers, and that they're both important.
And really that's an illustration of what I mean by Sam, and Jared, being treated as second-class. Sam isn't Dean, and Jared isn't Jensen, and therefore they're a waste of time and space, and why would you want to write about THEM? Surely there are better things you could write about. They're not good enough for an actual reviewer to spend even a few lines on, much less actual content. Isn't that what second-class is? Lesser than the first class? They, and in my opinion, the show runners, certainly seem to think that way, that Sam and Jared are worth much less than their counterpart.
I'm with you on the confidence in Jared. He definitely has enough style and grace to carry on. It just frustrates me that he has to. I've mentioned it before, but at the con in Vancouver I complimented him on his work in Season 4. I had already moved slightly past his table in the autograph line when I remembered to say it, and he was signing something else, but I turned back and said it anyway. He seemed surprised, but he looked up at me and gave me this huge, sparkling, dimpled smile and thanked me very sincerely. I got the feeling he doesn't hear that a lot from fans, and that's not right. Clearly everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I know I'm not the only one who thinks that way, so I hope that stuff like that can reach his ears more often.
I think most reviewers (not Livejournal bloggers) are very much balanced. I even tend to find them a little more Sam-centered. Mo Ryan is the one that surprised me in that she seems to praise Jared a lot more than Jensen. Alice Jester is another one. In terms of forums, Supernatural TV tends to scew more toward Sam's side of things. (Avoid TWOP, there are about 4 rabid Deangirls there who have chased away most posters).
I have found that to be true, also. It's easy to tell if a reviewer has a favorite, but most of the bloggers and reviewers tend to be balanced, they'll give credit where it's due. I've read some of Alice's stuff, she's got such a clean style, her reviews are a joy to read. I've not heard of Mo, but I'm sure hers are of the same quality. And besides, if she's a Jared fan, I'm a fan of hers! I've been to TWOP all of twice, and never felt that it would be worth my while engaging fans there.
I think it's reasonable to be a rabid Jared OR Jensen fan, both boys are so pretty and talented, each in their own way, and who am I to deny them their passionate fangirling? Or fanboying, for that matter. But it's not reasonable to tear down someone just because you can, or because they took a moment to point out something that wasn't quite working for them.
Mo Ryan is the reviewer for the Chicago Tribune. She rocks. She is quite strict about any and all Sam vs Dean stuff, and doesn't hesitate to call people on their nonsense.
"I got the feeling he doesn't hear that a lot from fans, and that's not right". No, I bet he doesn't, because fans are very busy complimenting Jensen on HIS work. This is painfully unfair. Jensen deserves every praise he gets, but so does Jared. And equally sad is that everytime guest actors are asked to talk about working with the boys, they never fail to mention how talented Jensen is. Jared, on the other hand, is invariably remembered by his pranks. Well, if I try to express how much this gets on my nerves, I'd go on endlessley. I'm just roling my eyes here.
Endless is right. At the point where Dean goes out ot the junkyard to pray to the skies whilst crying…it was just over the top for me. It would have meant more if we'd not already seen so much of the same. (As much as it kills me to say that, because I LOVE it when Dean cries! But sometimes the needs of the story are more important than my personal kinks.)
That's definately a boon. I get irritated when someone flings out, "It's just a TV show!" And so fine, yes, but how about "It's just a FOOTBALL game!" Or, "It's just a racetrack with guys going a million miles an hour all the while making left turns!" They have their passions, and I have mine. Which is why I started doing these reviews, so I could have these serious and fun conversations with fellow fans. As many have pointed out, when you express your opinion in some places, you get lambasted and hounded, and there's not a whole lot of listening going on there. And I'm hoping that Show gets better than this, as it should do, as it surely should do, so that we can, once again, be moved by our boys.
That irritates me too. I don't like being told it's "just a TV show" or that if it irritates me so much I should "just quit watching", or worst of all, to "calm down". Drives me insane.
I have the same hope. I'm not sure how long it'll last, but for the moment, I have that hope. I think next season is our best bet of achieving that goal, since Sera Gamble will be in charge. It's no sure thing though.
I've heard that in multiple places now that Sera will be in charge. She's a Samfan I hear, and loves to tie him up and torture him. But does that mean that Sam's story will start being told, perhaps in the much publicized Season Six? Or will she have to bow to the pressures of the Suits Who Make Money?
That's the million dollar question right there. Frankly I have little faith that even Sera will do anything to change the Dean show trend. At one time I think she would have, and I do think she'll at least try to make it better. But lately she seems to have been as bad as Kripke about drooling all over the angels and what's "popular" with the show. I think it's very telling though that lately I've seen Show show up on at least one list of "Show's We Wish Would Just Die Already" programs, along with Smallville. Now, I'm not saying I agree, but apparently there are other people out there who have tired of the current trends in the show.
You hit the nail on the head Whiskey, lol. My theory really was born at Comic Con 08 when Jensen gleefully (well, somewhat) announced that he was now in the mytharc! Also, at a recent con (maybe Vancouver of last year) he said something in answer to a question at the panel that really cemented my theory in my mind. He talked about how glad he was that Dean had more to do than just protect Sam and that now that Dean was part of the mytharc, he was important. Jared interjected a bit and said that Dean was always important, but Jensen cut him off with a bit if impatience in his voice and said something like, 'well, come on, he's in it now' or something like that – please don't quote me
Add to this the fact that Kripke himself admitted in the DVD commentary that he killed off the psychic kids because the storyline bored him and we have the beginnings of the diminishing of Sam.
I could cite many examples of the behind the scenes people praising Jensen to high heaven and not really mentioning Jared much at all. I get it- Jensen is talented and hard working, etc, but dammit, so is Jared. And I agree with you that if Jensen had gotten the part of Sam and maybe someone else had been Dean, we would have kept the original arc that was about the younger kid and demon blood and YED and psychic kids and the whole ball of wax. Not only that, I am sure Sam would have saved Dean from hell using his powers and we would have been tramping all through Sam's inner thoughts and feelings about his 'powers' and alienation from the world.
People who say that trust in Kripke are kind of naive in my mind. I think they don't stop to think that the real world often intrudes into the world of fantasy – in this case, the popularity of Jensen in the fandom and the craziness over Misha (which I fail to get at all) changed the plot and direction of the show and hence affected Sam and Dean's journey. If Kripke had had a plan like some people think, then none of that would have affected the plot that he had planned for the characters.
I am very glad that Jensen and Jared are still friends and close and people who work on the show and guest star still say wonderful things about them; I would hate for the slant of the fandom to affect Jared; he doesn't deserve the dissing he gets so often. It makes me sad.
Oh man, don't get me started on this tangent, I may never shut up, lol!
I will add this and like you said Whiskey, this is not meant as anything against Jensen, but I did notice he has mentioned talking to Kripke a lot. I have a feeling that he talked to Eric at some time after second season and during third and complained a bit about Dean not having any 'specialness' like Sam and that the big bad was after Sam and all Dean did was protect, etc. So, the angel arc was born, Dean was special, Dean was rescued from hell by an angel, Dean is a vessel, etc. Kripke said before that if the strike hadn't happened, they were going to address Sam's demon blood and powers etc in those episodes that were lost and also that the psychic kids storyline was supposed to go through to third season, but I say, why did that have to be ignored? I know they were focussed on saving Dean, but they could have done both, even in the amount of episodes they had. Plus I think the whole show would have changed if Sam had saved Dean. Speaking of hero moments…why does Dean get them all? He killed the YED, he tried to kill Lucifer, he makes the deal to save Sam, etc. Why couldn't Sam have had a hero moment?
Man, I am rambling now, I'll shut up for now
I had a feeling we were thinking the same way on that one.
However, personally I would hesitate to think that any of it is Jensen's doing. He's only human, and surely has flaws somewhere (and they're certainly not visible on the outside), but I just don't think he'd deliberately undermine Jared that way. He seems too nice, and too loyal of a friend to do that. Clearly I don't know him personally, but I'm going on what we have collectively heard about him and seen him do. I might have misunderstood some of what you said, but I kind of got that impression and I wanted to make sure it was clear that wasn't what I meant.
Now who I do blame is Kripke. I would hesitate to call Dean a Marty Stu, since he has way too much development and depth for that, though that's not all down to writing. But I do wonder sometimes if there's not some vicarious living going on from the writers room into the character. I also don't know that Kripke's plan ever existed. He's gone back on it so many times that it makes a person's head spin, so I don't think it was ever as gelled as we were lead to believe. I think fandom has had a HUGE influence on the show we're getting right now, and that's not necessarily a good thing. I totally agree that trusting in Kripke isn't a good idea, unless you happen to belong to the portion of fandom he's currently catering to. That's why the change in leadership next season has me slightly, ever so slightly, hopeful that things will improve. Sera has her flaws, for sure, but of all the remaining writers/producers, she's the only one who seems to remember that Sam used to be more than a plot device.
I would love Sam to get a hero moment, and for it to be recognized both on the show, and by fans. When Dean saves the day it's "oh Dean! He's so awesome!" On the rare occasion that Sam gets to do so on a smaller scale, it's "eh, Dean would have gotten out of it somehow. He can take care of himself." Unless things change, I think once show is over I'll put my Season 1 & 2 DVD sets (the only ones I have purchased, or intend to purchase) and pretend that the show ended right there in that cemetery with the YED's stolen corpse rapidly cooling as the boys settled in to the work they had to do. That was my show.
Ah, Syl! I love Bobby, always have, always will. I don't resent this episode being about him, not one bit. As for Dean always coming across as the hero and Sam coming in second, most fans are Dean fans, and that's the answer to your question. This hasn't been about Sam for a long time now, and never will be again. I am an EEO gal when it comes to the brothers, but even I can see how the story has switched over to being more Dean-centric since season 4 started.
Back to Bobby. I loved him and his angst and how protective the brothers were about him. He and Dean have always been closer, so it seemed appropriate for Dean to be the one to watch over him while Sam took care of everyone else. I cried when Sam killed Jody's little boy, but it was because I felt sorry for HER. She did an excellent job of portraying a strong woman who lost not only her son (for the second time), but, because she hadn't listened to Dean in the first place, her husband, too. I cried when Karen warned Bobby that she was turning, because, clearly, she wasn't like the other zombies who turned and just ate whatever loved one was closest. She gave Bobby enough time to put a bullet in her head, because, let's face it, he could have just sat there, watched her turn, and allowed her to devour him. It would have solved all his problems, wouldn't it? If he were dead, he wouldn't have to worry about the Winchesters any longer.
Other folks have complained that Sam and Bobby aren't really that close, so why is Bobby standing in the way of Sam saying yes to Lucifer? I'll tell you why–because Bobby is both brothers' safe haven. He's their uncle/father figure, whatever you want to call him. He's there for advice, solace, FBI backup (except this once, which was hysterical), attachment to John. They need him; he needs them, if for nothing else, a human connection. Without Bobby, who do the Winchesters have left? No one. Each other. And I suspect their enemies will do all they can to sever that, too, and brutally. So, Syl, I wouldn't be so quick to wish Bobby gone, whether by death or just walking away from the brothers. He's all they have.
If you're interested, please check out MY review of this episode at:
http://www.moogi.com/shows/supernatural/season5/e...
Feel free to make comments!
Love, Robin
Syl, you just don't like Bobby, and want him to die. I don't. I found this episode to be both funny and tragic, like a really good Shakespearean play.
You're right, Rob, I don't like Magical Bobby because I feel his character is intrustive to the true heart of the story, which is about the brothers. If it seems like it's not about the brothers, or even if it isn't about the brothers, that doesn't change my mind from wanting it to be. I know that lots of people, including you, like Magical Bobby, and that's totally fine, to each their own. MB is an interesting character, in his way, but there's been too much of him.
Perhaps, as you say, "most" fans are Dean fans, but it's a vague total, that might reflect a 51% vs 40% split. So yeah, there might be a majority there, and okay, but that doesn't mean that Sam fans can't want what they want and be passionate about how they feel, so you're saying that I'm in a minority doesn't change my mind about how I feel about Sam. Plus, it doesn't really answer why Dean comes across as the hero. Are there more Dean fans because Dean's the hero? Or is Dean coming across as the result of Dean fans demanding more, and wanting Dean to be the hero? I would think it is the latter, most people like to support a hero. But there's more than one way to be a hero, and both Sam and Dean fit that bill.
Sorry, a 51% to 49% split…if I could do math, I'd be in a different profession!
If I were to give you a mathematical figure, I'd say it's more like 70% Dean, 30% Sam, but that's strictly from my own observations.
Robin
You think? I'm wondering if there's ever been a count. I'm totally willing to be proven incorrect about all this. If anyone has the numbers, please send them.
Sylvia, I think it would matter on where you chose to poll the fans. If you did so online, particularly off of a fansite, or popular LJ comm, then you might come out with what Robin says, a 70/30 split. If you did so at a big con, I think the gap would close and you'd get more of a 60/40.
But if you were actually able to sit down and poll all the fans, including the ones who watch, but don't have an online presence, that's when the real numbers would come out, and I think it might look more like what you described, with Dean just barely edging Sam out. And there would be a possibility that it would come out even too. If you added the chance to select "Both" then I think Sam and Dean would each lose their individual category, and the two of them together would take the majority. That's one of the reasons that I think TPTB are screwing themselves over by greasing the squeaky wheel to the detriment of the rest of the machine. That squeaky wheel could stop squeaking, and by then everyone else will have lost interest, or be so thoroughly meh about things that they won't respond to the grease.
I like your take on the matter a lot better. I want to believe you're right. But from what I've been hearing, the golden boy of the day is Mischa Collins. "Misch-Misch" – and I'm probably one of the very few people who fail to perceive his charms – is even more popular than Dean these days. I confess that the reason behind all this adoration remains a mystery to me.
Bobby might be a father figure to Dean, I do not doubt that as much as I doubt that he's ever been there for Sam in any way resembling a father figure. Whenever he expresses concern, it's for Dean. Personal advice? It's about Dean. If he's got lore or supernatural knowledge, yes, it's Sam that' he's talking to a lot of the time, but being Sam's librarian doesn't make them close.You can choose to disagree with me, which you probably will, but I see no evidence to support what you are saying here.
Bobby tried hard to keep in touch with Sam after Dean's death. He buried Dean along with Sam. I'm sure he tried to keep in touch, just as he did in "Mystery Spot." No one will ever convince me that Bobby doesn't care just as much for Sam as he does Dean, but Sam isn't as forthcoming with Bobby the same way Dean is. Sam took off right away, wouldn't allow Bobby in after Dean's death. Love, Robin
I think that's a two way street. Bobby might have tried to keep in touch with Sam, and wanted to help cremate Dean's body and do all that stuff, but Sam turned him away. I think Bobby's efforts were laudable. (And you're right to remind me of this, because I had forgotten.) But at that point, when Dean went to hell, I don't think the two of them had the relationship where Bobby's reaching out would have affected Sam in any way. He probably felt mostly on his own before Dean went to hell, so anyone there for him, offering support, even Bobby, would have mattered not at all to him. He probably wouldn't have even noticed Bobby's efforts – esp with Ruby around to distract him.
Bobby is not all they have – they have each other, and that's a stronger bond than will ever be between Dean and anyone else, including Bobby. Yes, that puts them at risk, but while it may be a weakness that the demons and all the minions of hell might use to destroy them, it is also their greatest strength. As if often the case, weaknesses and strength go hand in hand. As do love and hate; even if Sam and Dean are fighting, which they often are, when push comes to shove, they would choose their brother over anyone else in the world. If you don't agree with me, then obviously you have a different view of the brother's relationship than I do. Which, again, is okay, because there's room for more than one opinion here.
I would never, ever say that the relationship between Dean and Sam isn't the core of SUPERNATURAL, and, indeed, the main reason I love this show so much. I believe it is their love for each other that is going to tell heaven, hell, demons and angels alike to go screw themselves, ultimately, because that love is so strong, it will surely conquer all evil. Sam and Dean don't need anyone but each other, but it kills me to see them struggling so hard, together and apart, when I know how much Bobby cares for them and would undoubtedly give his life for them. The same goes for Castiel. The sad thing is, the Winchester brothers will probably end up completely alone in this war.
I guess we'll wait and see. I'm going to cry a lot when/if Bobby dies. I cried when Jo and Ellen died, too. I know this is a show about the Winchester brothers, but I've come to love a lot of the folks who loved them.
Robin
I know people will cry when and if Bobby dies, and I can see why you're attached to him, because yeah, there is a connection, and it's not like he hates Sam! I guess I get peeved when people throw out the "father figure" idea when I don't see it between Bobby and Sam….but here's the other thing. If Bobby goes down making a sacrifice, or dying to save the boys? His death will have meaning and a huge significance for the boys, like Ellen and Jo's death did.
I was thinking about this on the way home, and I think it's eerie to see your word echoing my thoughts, that in spite of what you want or what I want, the point of being a hero is that, in spite of the support group they might have, in the end they are on their own, as heroes are, when they go off to do their heroic deed.
Really, all I want is for Sam and Dean NOT to die at the end of this!!!
Really, all I want is for Sam and Dean NOT to die at the end of this!!!
You are preaching to the choir about that, Syl! I've said it over and over–neither brother can die, or I will be soooooo upset! The fact that we're getting a sixth season of the show comforts me, but I'm hearing rumors that Dean is going to be an angel? I do NOT want that to happen, because it means he's going to die, or at least I assume so. I don't want Dean an angel while Sam is human, that just doesn't work for me! I want both brothers to be human. On the other hand, if Sera can make it work, I'll watch. I don't want to be another SPN naysayer.
I guess I'm getting REALLY worried. I read something in the new TV Guide that I didn't mean to read, a huge spoiler, and I'm so pissed I accidentally read it! DAMN!
Sadly, I think Robin is right. It will never be about Sam again. To quote episode 5.10 (which I hated), I'm abandoning all hope of that. Sera Gamble is reputedly a samgirl but she won't resist pressure. I'm starting to think that Jared is right when he says that the best thing for Sam would be to redeem himself and then die. Jensen and Mr. Collins can take care of Season 6.
Well, I've always had a tendency for the minorities. If you're interested, here is one of the reasons why I support the minority in this case:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIaD1Yl_G6c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CeKn456i7o
I hope you enjoy.
La la la I'm not listening to you! (At least not about the part where the story is not about Sam and never will be!) But those videos? Hadn't seen 'em, and now. Oh, yeah, I've supported the dimpled, green-eyed, smoky hot minority, and these vids show the reason why. : D
Thank you VERY much for sharing those.
Sorry, Sylvia. I'm just a little sad. Don't mind me.
As for the videos, my pleasure. I like to share what is beaufitul with friends.
I hear you on that one. One ep, I felt that Ackles was a little off his game. Just a little, mind you. His acting is usualy at 115%, that I thought maybe he had a cold, or wasn't that into the script or something. So I mentioned it, and it was just an observation, maybe half a sentence, but I was very quickly accused of "Dean-bashing." This astonishes me. I always like to give credit where it's due, but I'm also allowed to make observations and critiques as I see fit. How is that bashing? I'm pretty sure most fans are more balanced than that particular poster was, so I try not to let it get to me.
Sylvia, there are many balanced fans that can sensibly discuss different opinions, and bless them. But I'm sorry to say that your experience is not an isolated case. I visited a Brazilian site the other day and had the unhappy idea to comment that Sera Gamble has the reputation of being a Samgirl. I won't even mention what I heard there, because it's not worth my time and effort. The most kind thing I was told is that I'm a sick person.
He plays the role of the Soap Angel well, but while I'm sure he's a perfectly nice guy, I don't understand all the passionate adulation. Methinks that the character is the new game in town, and it's easy to get excited about something that's new.
I'm finding the show so *strange* these days – the writers don't seem to have anything new to say, at all, about their characters. Just these empty hours of silly plots, where the boys' thoughts and feelings are of no importance / don't exist. I feel like these engaging characters are slipping away somehow, and the hour of can't-miss TV with me hanging on the edge of my seat over the boys' fates has turned into a show I remember to watch sometime Thursday night, while folding laundry.
Hell, they just devoted a whole hour to a Bobby story and didn't have anything new to say about *him* either. What's the point? And why should this all motivate me to tune in for a sixth season?
All these are very good questions, and I'm pretty sure there is a whole host of fans asking the very same thing! We want to care about these characters, otherwise, yeah, there's laundry to fold and sock drawers to organize, and spring is lurking right outside the back door.