Comments on: Is Joss Whedon Really a Hack?

By: vincentr

vincentr — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:51:28 +0000

Yes, Dollhouse is the weakest entry into Joss’ oeuvre for a various reasons: (1) Eliza wanted to play different characters each week, but as you rightly point out, she simply doesn’t have the talent to pull it off. (2) The concept, while intriguing, reads better on the page than it does in production. (3) The sexual slavery aspect of the show would seem to have a very high ick factor among women, Joss’ core audience. (4) More network interference from Fox. Now, to their credit, they renewed the show & let Joss wrap it up however he wanted, and the last 10 hours moved along much better than the first season and a half. However, as soon as Fox bought the show, they shot Eilza in all the wet, skimpy outfits, selling the sex of the show all the way. They immediately got cold feet, and asked Joss to tone down the sex, and make it “more like Alias”. He did what he could with his weak premise & weaker lead actress, but the writing was on the wall early on. Again, kudos to Fox for reupping the show, but they need to shoulder their share of responsiblity for it’s failure.

By: Rob Shapiro

Rob Shapiro — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 12:34:01 +0000

Whedon is more than a 'hack' – he's simply terrible at creating things a great number of people like.

He was lucky with 'Buffy' – the show was generally entertaining as a whole, but once he gets started with his soap-opera-y storylines, all bets are off (and the TV, as well, in my case!)

Everything else he's done has been almost unwatchable in my opinion – and that includes 'Firefly'.

Sure, there will always be a small number of sci-fi/fantasy fanboys who will salivate for anything Whedon dreams up, but the proof is in the pudding – nearly all of his works are cancelled because the general public simply doesn't like it.

Take a look at some of the stuff he's written for others – again, the same story applies. One success (Toy Story) and lots of MASSIVE failures (Titan A.E., Atlantis the Lost Empire)

yuk.

By: Bram

Bram — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:39:07 +0000

Haven't you read Sugarshock yet? It is way, way, way too much fun.

By: Robin

Robin — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:59:34 +0000

In my (admittedly quite fangirlish) experience, Joss Whedon creates things that people react strongly to. The fact that you only dislike one of his five or six (depending on how you count them) projects from the last fifteen years speaks pretty highly of the overall quality of his work. And the fact that you dislike it doesn't necessarily say anything negative about Dollhouse. It just means that it doesn't suit your tastes. And that's okay. It doesn't make you a bad fan or anything. In fact, I think it makes you a fan who's being an active participant in the overall fandom dialogue. I'm a fan of the Star Trek franchise in general, but didn't really like Enterprise or the new Abrams movie. It happens.

Personally, I've enjoyed Dollhouse more often than not, particularly the sticky moral questions it's raised and the various characters' answers to those questions. Ever since about season 4 of BtVS, I've been watching Whedon's creations with an ear toward layers and literary criticism, which makes the experience really fun and interactive for me and maybe helps me gloss over some of the weaker bits. (Yes, it has flaws. Every series does.) From what I've read — and read between the lines — a lot of your quibbles with the series are shared by much of the audience, and largely due to network decisions rather than those of the production staff. I do agree that it works better as an ensemble piece than a star vehicle for Dushku, but the same could be said for Jennifer Garner and Alias or Adrian Paul and Highlander. I'm also a big fan of ensembles as a general rule.

To wrap up this rather lengthy ramble, I guess what I'm trying to say is that whether Joss is a hack is an individual opinion and subject to change based on present and future projects. Your mileage may vary and all that.

By: WolfenM

WolfenM — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:30:12 +0000

(cont) I will agree that Dushku is the weakest link, but for me, even she is getting better over time, especially with the latest ep. And even when she's not-so-much, I've found plenty to enjoy around her, especially with Topher & Adelle. They, especially Topher, is why I stuck with it when it wasn't all that great (well, them and the Ballard/Mellie thing, while it lasted), and they continue to enthrall me now. And Enver Gjokaj is a fantastic actor — his impersonation of Topher was amazing! Dushku's actying aside, the overall story is getting fantastically dimesnional and mind-blowing; I think the plots are getting even better than the best of Angel! Dollhouse is one of those iinstances where the "important" character isn't really the lead, she's the plot device, the robot Marie, the focal point through which everyone else's character is developed by their reactions to her. She's just the eye of the storm; the hurricane itself is where the action and interest is.

By: jeffrey386

jeffrey386 — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:04:38 +0000

Joss Whedon is neither a hack, nor a god. He's a talented human-being who, like any film-maker/story-teller, isn't always perfect. Sometimes Ted Williams swung and missed. It happens.

By: worldofhiglet

worldofhiglet — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:55:38 +0000

Interesting point, Bel, and I agree with you there. Choosing not to do that was a bold move on Joss' part.

By: Teresa

Teresa — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:57:34 +0000

Dollhouse Season 1? Boring. Though Joss was very true to his word that it would pick up at Episode 6. It did. Epitaph 1 was brilliant (though sadly never aired), and Season 2 has gotten amazing! This past Fridays episodes blew me away! (it also helps that they're doing 2 eps a week now, which takes the sting out of the slow pace of last season)

But is Joss Whedon a hack? Because of ONE show? NO! Let's cut the guy some slack! Not only were Buffy and Angel long-running shows that had a complex mythology, and not only was Firefly (and Serenity) wonderful, and not only did he co-write Toy Story (one of the best animated movies EVER!), and not only did he write Alien: Resurrection (which was subsequently screwed up by the director), and not only was Dr. Horrible AND the subsequent "Commentary: The Musical!" pure genius both from a writing standpoint and a PLATFORM standpoint (DVD commentary as IT'S OWN FULL-ON MUSICAL?!)…

BUT he's been writing comics all this time, too! Buffy: S8 kicks major ass. He wrote a brilliant X-Men arc in Astonishing X-Men, and Sugar Shock is comedic gold! He also wrote a killer arc for Runaways that changed EVERYTHING!

So don't worry, Lisa. Joss Whedon really IS the genius you think he is, and a very hard-working genius at that! But cut the guy some slack. Even geniuses aren't perfect ALL the time.

By: WolfenM

WolfenM — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:30:12 +0000

By: WolfenM

WolfenM — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:29:42 +0000

Interesting. I can see why you feel as you do. For me, I thought the show did get significantly better mid-last season, with Man on the Street and Echoes,/ I think it's *awesome* now, this season is rocking my world! So many awesome twists, so many bits of seemingly throw-away dialogue turning out to be significant foreshadowing, some great scene and character parallelism. (to be cont because he box is telling me my message is too long)

By: Katie

Katie — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:03:09 +0000

I have to say I did have hopes for dollhouse and can sense bits and pieces of the makings if a truly great show. It just wasn’t fully realized, I coompletly agree it needed more joss less interlopers.
But I will say this the character topher was well done and adorable. N the only one I think that was as close to a full character as possible. You can sense Joss’ heart n humor in that goofy little man
I also have to mention victor or rather the actor portraying him, he has actually impressed me. His version of topher was dead on and also adorable as was his version of (brain fart on the name) the valley girl ish Imprint that transferred from echo to him. That boy can act and out of the dolls was the most believable.
I feel for the show I see the potential and am saddened that it’s not something that was started on a more sci friendly network that would have given it a fair chance to be different n special and not so appeal to the Britney loving masses centric.
I would love to see joss on sci fi! Give us more well rounded fully developed characters, give us more firefly gold. We want to laugh, cry and say hot damn did u see that!?!

By: @BelRand

@BelRand — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:39:50 +0000

Even if one doesn't like DH (and quite a few people dont) it still doesn't fit my definition of a hack, since it was an honest attempt at doing something new and interesting. A hack is someone who does not take creative chances or try to be innovative. Regardless of the quality of Dollhouse, I think most people would agree that it is something very new, and that intent is what makes Whedon a non-hack.

Example: One of the issues some people voiced initially (and that I agreed with at first), is that the show lacked the same sense of family that had been so compelling in his earlier series. But as I contemplate it further, I have to say that it's a pretty impressive descision.

We all know that Whedon can create great tightknitted groups of friends who stand at eachothers sides no matter what. But "it's been done". He has already explored a lot of that with the Scoobies, the Fang Gang and The Crew. A hack would go back to that source time after time and NOT take the creative leap of writing a show without that core group.

By: AlphaGirl

AlphaGirl — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:20:45 +0000

I was wondering that out loud after Dollhouse on Friday and needed to reassure myself that he's not the problem, that he does deserve my love.

By: worldofhiglet

worldofhiglet — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:15:42 +0000

After such a controversial headline I think you've made a fair assessment. Dollhouse does not grab me the way his other work has, even though the best episode have been magnificent.

I don't think Joss is a hack by any means, and my guess is that his best work is ahead of him. Dr Horrible was done without the studios or any interference and is a masterpiece. I'm hoping we see a lot more of the good Doctor and other web creations by Mr Whedon.

By: Rhea Dee

Rhea Dee — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:26:42 +0000

Dollhouse is a weird show for me. When I watch it, I'm all about it. But when the episode's over, all I can do is pick it apart. Dollhouse definitely suffered from “amazing concept, lackluster storytelling.” And I’m glad it’s ending: I don’t think the concept would have worked over a long period of time. Plus, I feel like the show might actually be better if it’s digested all at once on DVD.

My concern about Joss’s work actually branches out from Dollhouse: I can’t stand the Buffy comics anymore! The plot was boring, and it just lost me when it started retreading the show. They had a whole issue which mimicked “Storyteller” to a T. I didn’t like it. It’s like this fannish, boring thing that exists just so Buffy will live on.

But even taking that into account, there’s still a lot to look forward to with Joss. We got a Dr. Horrible sequel. And we got Cabin in the Woods, a horror comedy film that he’s doing with Drew Goddard (yay) and starring Topher from Dollhouse (double yay)!