Oh my! Yes Jared has really grown up. It honestly looked like a kid, in the first few seasons but this year…he just takes my breath away.

Joan

That's when I realized Dean was the golden child of the show and I knew the bell had tolled.

THIS!

You're right, Sylvia, Dean should have turned to Sam for support. It almost made me wish they killed Bobby instead and I have grown to love Bobby ever since he gave Dean the tough love smackdown and told Sam his door would always be open to him. Whatever mistakes Sam made, he is nor the only one at fault and Dean was hardly there for him either last season and season 3 for that matter. But I guess going to hell always tips the balance against Sam. That's a case Sam will never win. *sigh* Not how I see it but anyways …

I think Samantha and Alona acted their hearts out but I did not cry. Their death scenes were so played out to manipulate OTT emotion by Show that I kind of resented it. Again, Sam and Alona were magnificent. It's the writers I blame and specifically Edlund who I really do not care for. His episodes always lack soul to me.

I guess my biggest problem was this Dean/Jo thing which Show told us was never a thing and all of a sudden it was now. I think Alona was miscast for Jo. She always exuded a little sister vibe and I felt had more chemistry with Sam. Dean's type to me would fall more towards a woman woman, someone like Cassie the demon, or Tessa the reaper, or even Jamie from MM. I was so proud of Jo for turning Dean down. It was such a nice twist and showed great character development. And I found Dean's kiss just before Jo dies to be so condescending.

But the main 3 things that gutted my heart was Ellen saying, "Dean, kick it in the ass". Why just Dean? Why not, "Boys, kick it in the ass"? and Dean having no words for Sam when that could have been their final moments alive together. You're right again, Sylvia, how awesome would it have been if they had exchanged "Bitch" and "Jerk". Lastly, I would have liked Sam to exchange a few words with Lucy. I guess Edlund is so indifferent to Sam he can't even be bothered to write dialogue for him.

Just want to end by saying again that Samantha and Alona gave excellent performances and Jared, how I love the way he conveyed fear and terror, rage and vulnerability and all with few to hardly any words. The only soul left in this show is in Jared's eyes.

If Sam's only motivation was to spare Dean because he felt there was no other way, as you said, then yes, *that* would be one-dimensional.  As I pointed out, Sam's motivations were much more complicated than that, as we were shown throughout S4.

"And herein lies the discrepancy of the perfect dean show is selling and what I am interpretating."

Dean was presented as being passive-aggressive on a *textual* level in this episode, but I think that's a very realistic response (I have to admit to being a bit passive-aggressive myself on occasion!).  Dean was also shown to struggle with his leadership duties on a textual level in this episode.  Both are examples of the show NOT presenting Dean as perfect.

Dean still loves his brother, which Ackles is able to convey even if the words aren't said.  Even when things were at their worst, I've never doubted the brother's love for one another.  And I think Dean has shown tremendous growth over the course of the series.  He's come to see his father for the very flawed human he was, but he still loves him.  Dean sees that Sam is flawed and he no longer places Sam on a pedestal, but he still loves him.  Dean found that he could be happy on his own.  But he made a mistake when he told Sam they were better off separated, and he apologized to Sam for his error.  He made a mistake by trying to return to the big brother / little brother dynamic when they got back together. Dean recognized his error and apologized to Sam again.  Dean has made mistakes along the way, but he picks himself up, apologizes when he feels he needs to, and continues on.

I do think you're missing quite a lot in Dean's characterization because you're convinced Kripke is intent portraying Dean as perfect.  I don't think this is the case at all.  Dean has made mistakes and so has Sam.  They're only human after all.  I adore them both.

I get that Dean is textually awesome and perfect, I do. I just find it kind of boring to watch. I'm sure he loves Sam too, to death, but he doesn't trust his loser little bro and who would at this point? I wish he'd beat him up instead of being passive-aggressive about it though.

I'd find Dean whacking Sam over the head a relief at this point. it'd be Deanish and perfect since I have a hard time interpreting the passive-aggressive behavior as growth. Me and Kripke are on opposite sides of the definition of maturity and personal growth, that much is clear.

I'd love for Dean to lay it all out there, speak his mind about his loser bro once and for all. Tell Sam what he really feels. Just to make things clear. Because not even I get the entire picture at this point. And with Dean being perfectly clear, it's all on Sam's shoulders to process it and make adjustments. That to me would be the mature thing to do.

If Sam doesn't get it then, then I'd buy that Sam is the the arrogant selfish bastard show wants me to think he is.

Right now, both characters are lost on me.

And since I bought the things I was shown; the absolute powerlessness, the despair and suicidal actions of a desperate man trying to offer up his soul for his brother – I am now totally lost.

Since kripke changed his mind about hat to do with propSam once again over the summer hiatus, I am just lost. And I have no energy and little interest in handing the constant cognitive dissonance show is giving me.

See what I mean? I'm not coming across very well sice my brain is fried right now. I'm not saying that the bad leadership is show's message at all. It's my interpretation of what I see not what I am told. And herein lies the discrepancy of the perfect dean show is selling and what I am interpretating. Perfection does not interest me, never has and never will and I mourn the Dean I loved, the one that called Sam bitch and teased him endlessly for his geeky self. The brother that in spite of his irritation over the nerdiness, still loved his little brother, faults and all. The Dean that was learning to see that everything wasn't black and white, the Dean that constantly grew, that's the Dean I miss so much I could cry.

Things that made want to throw something at the TV

#1 – Sam and Dean had nothing to say to each! HELLO! Okay, I realize they are still trying to find their footing, as brothers…and I also realize they do not usually wear their emotions…on their sleeves but a ‘bitch’ ‘jerk’ exchange would have been nice. Which, by the way…is ‘Winchester speak’ for “I love you”. Or, a warm embrace would have even sufficed but I have to admit….A ‘kiss’ would have been even better. They gave us a onscreen kiss earlier and seeing Sam and Dean kiss would have been much more satisfying. My TV screen would have melted.

#2 – Jo said NO! HELLO again! Okay…I realize she was trying to save her self-respect but when Dean asks you to ‘make merry’ all thoughts of self-respect GO OUT THE WINDOW!!!!!! I mean…it is Dean Winchester! There is no way I would have any restraint if that man was that close to me….with those eyes…and those freckles…and those lips! She is a better woman than me because there is NO WAY I would have turned him down. No freaking way.

#3 – Sam and Dean honestly need to find a way back to each other. I know they have always had some form of conflict but deep-down…I know they still love and respect each other. They are making in-roads but I want them to resolve all of their issues and regain their trust in each other so that they can win the battle which is looming on the horizon.

Things that made me stop and think

#1 – Sam and Dean had to be rescued again. I am glad Castiel was there for them but I want them to find away to win themselves.

#2 – Detroit came up again. In ‘The End’ future Dean said that was where Sam said “Yes” and in AAH Lucifer told him the same thing. He said he would say yes in six months. HOLY CRAP! That means he says yes BEFORE the season ends if Lucifer was telling the truth.

#3 – The look…on Dean’s face…in the closing scene…was haunting

#4 – ‘War and Death’ have been unleashed on earth…when will we the others make their appearance?

#5 – Lucifer is too powerful for his human vessel

#6 – Hitler was on Crowley’s TV screen

Closing thoughts

I think this particular episode will be a turning point. I think the remainder of the season is going to be utterly dismal. I hope our boys somehow find their inner strength so they can gain momentum and swing the pendulum in their favor. Things are looking bleak right now and I don’t foresee a return to light and brevity anytime soon. Poor Sam and Dean! Their lives sure are downright miserable right now. And, life is not going to get any easier for them. They are slowly falling into a deep, dark abyss and they must be discouraged because they aren’t winning the battle.

There are so many thoughts and questions swirling around in my head. I am so worried about Sam and Dean and what the future holds for them.

Finally, I am also a glutton and I want to see bruises and blood and our boys battered. I believe we are going to be in for a bumpy ride, Sylvia.

BTW, I am going to miss your witty and engaging reviews! This particular one was stellar. I absolutely loathe these long hiatuses. It means I don’t get to hang out with our Winchester boys or you. I know it’s coming every season but that doesn’t mean I have to like it. 

I do hope you have a wonderful holiday season. I will see you again on January 26th, 2010.

Take care, Joan

Well, I wanted a dark and depressing episode filled with angst and misery and Kripke delivered. He must have read my letter. Now, I also requested ‘loads of whumpage’ and ‘cuts and bruises’ but alas…there was very little of that. However, overall this episode had almost everything a Supernatural fan girl could want.

#1 –What a heartbreaking episode! It was gloomy, cheerless and heartrending. I cried and what a relief it was to actually feel something!

#2 – Jo and Ellen’s goodbye scene. They were strong women who died like soldiers in battle. I got a lump in my throat when Jo said she wasn’t leaving which lead to many tears as Sam held Jo’s hand and Dean kissed Jo on the forehead and then on the lips.
It was tender and poignant and silent. No words were necessary to express their regret, loss and remorse. Finally, the flood gates opened as Ellen and Jo spent their last moments together as mother and daughter.

#3a – Sam and Dean…sitting around the table…drinking beers and dithering.

#3b – Sam kept checking to see if Dean was still alive…after he was knocked unconscious

#4 – The entire sequence of events…after everyone arrived in Carthage. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time. What a rollercoaster ride it was!
#5 – Crowley was remarkable. I absolutely savored each and every moment he was on the screen. Gold stars AGAIN to the casting department. 
#6 – Castiel sure looked yummy this episode.

#7- Castiel got the better of Meg. That was awesome!

#8 – Dean and Jo’s ‘last night on earth speech’ scene. It was sweet, sexy and endearing.
#9 – Sam and Dean interacting with Crowley…at this mansion. Their interplay was intriguing and thought provoking.
#10 – Everyone hanging out at Bobby’s. I don’t know..it just felt right.

#11 – “Sam Winchester having trust issues with a demon. It’s about time”. “Thank you for your continued support”. HEE!

#12 – “Haven’t you learned anything? We are doing this together”.

#13 – The closing scene…quiet and solemn

#14 – Castiel and Lucifer – collectively trying to get the better of each other.

#15 – “I think I am starting to feel something” LOL

End of part 1

How is Dean "too perfect"?  You just explained how he was a bad leader without a plan.  He was shown to struggle with his decisions.  That's not perfect.  You also assumed he did not understand the term "functional moron".  Is Dean still holding a grudge for Sam's betrayal?  Probably somewhat, but they're working together as a team, drinking beers together, joking around, and communicating more honestly than they've done in the past.  I think Dean is working to try to get past it.  But I do think Sam's betrayal will always be something between them.  Sam choose to be with a demon, who he heard laugh in Dean's face as she told Dean that she wished she could be there as his flesh ripped off in hell.  That betrayal is gonna sting for awhile.

"Sam took it upon himself and did some majorly stupid things but for Dean to still be pissed at him? Sam didn't do it to be heroic, he did it because he felt there was no other way. I thought that came through rather clearly at the end of S4 but maybe it's just me."

Yes, Sam felt he had no other choice but it's clear to me that there was much more to Sam's motives than merely doing it all to "spare Dean".  He wanted revenge against Lilith even when he knew that killing her would not bring Dean back.  And when Dean returned, Sam felt that Dean was too weak and afraid and that he was "stronger, smarter and a better hunter".  He felt that HE deserved to be the one to destroy Lilith and not Dean ("oh that's right, the angels think it's YOU").  He also liked the feeling of power and control that using his powers and drinking the blood gave him.  He preferred being with Ruby and just wanted to get away from his bossy big brother (of course this doesn't explain why he hooked up with Ruby when "bossy big brother" was dead and in hell…).  I do agree with you that Sam's motives for his actions of last season came through quite clearly in the later episodes of S4, especially IKWYDLS, ASS, S&V, JTS, TMATEOTB, and WTLB.

I can't get the deep betrayal either., since Sam did what he did to spare Dean who himself told Castiel he wasn't capable. Sam took it upon himself and did some majorly stupid things but for Dean to still be pissed at him? Sam didn't do it to be heroic, he did it because he felt there was no other way. I thought that came through rather clearly at the end of S4 but maybe it's just me.

I think the 6 month thing was a sudden idea for the finale. The writers clearly have no plan and are writing this as they go along. That why a couple of years became May next year. It's also clear that sam's possible story will be halted until 5.21, as usual when Lucifer finally has convinced Sam to say yes off-screen *groan*.

And angels being able to do things outside the fire? Still seems retcon to me, I mean, why put them in one at all if they can just get out? It seems that sometimes the traps work (circle of fire, or the devil's trap) or sometimes they don't, depending on the needs of the plot – which throws me. I remember Raphael doing that, but I don't remember Gabe saving Castiel…..