I am also curious to see what direction their relationship will take as well. But, I am hopeful. I know it is a hard to change when something is deeply engrained inside yourself and it has defined who you are as a person, for your entire life. It is extremely difficult to move on and distance yourself from it. And, this is especially true with families. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Dean has always been Sam's protector and Sam's older brother. It is definitely time for him to let Sam grow up because he hasn't been allowed to do that. Sam is very naive but he is has definitely become more of his own person as time has gone on. He wants Redemption now…not just revenge.

I truly believe this year will be a turning point for the WInchester brothers. They have always been close but I think they can be even closer as they find a way to re-build their relationship and work together. 'They are two halves of whole, they keep each other human!' Brilliant statement Sylvia.

You are so welcome! I love putting my lists together and I am so glad you enjoy reading them.

You know, seeing Sam drive up in that car broke my heart as well. And, yes, Sam owns my soul also but some days Dean owns mine as well. I just totally get into the episodes that Ben writes. Finally, I am glad you agreed with #11. I am beyond thrilled that our BOYS are back together again!! The planets are aligned nown and all is right with the world!!! As Dean said…'They are really all they have and they keep each other human". Sam and Dean are the soul of the show and their relationship is what drew me in initially. Tension is good but the 'making up part' is so much sweeter! I am anxious to see what direction their relationship will take, going forward as well. I know the road may be a little bumpy, because, after all, they are 'Winchester's' you know. But, I truly believe their relationship will grow stronger and they will grow even closer. They each have to let the other one be their own person. I think Sam needed to stretch his wings and Dean needed to let him. Dean has always been the big brother and Sam's protector but Sam is a grown-up now. It is hard for people to let go of roles that have defined them for so long and I think that is especially true in families. But, at the same time, I know they understand, inherently, that they need each other and they will be able to fight harder if they are on the same page. 'Two halves of a whole' is such a true statement, Sylvia.

Take care, Joan

#1 Sam driving a hunk of junk broke my heart!

#2. Was Misha in this ep? (Just kidding!)

#4. Ben Edlund doesn't own my soul! Sam owns my soul! (Not kidding but being very contrary…..)

#11 is very VERY true and very worth while repeating over and over and over. They are back together again!!! The question remains, what direction will their relationship take now???

Thanks, Joan, for the fun list!

First of all, being a vessel for a righteous angel, though undesirable, as we know now (though Sam still doesn't know what Dean knows about what happens to vessels), is hardly the same as being told the Devil wants to wear your skin. Secondly, if Sam didn't fall apart worrying about Dean, at least he wasn't openly antagonistic about it. He didn't respond the way you clearly would have liked, but he didn't respond in a cold way either.

"I never said Sam was self-centered. But if you want to take the conversation at surface value (which I didn't, but I was responding to YOUR statement that Dean is cold, harsh, and uncaring) then that's fine. But DEAN APOLOGIZED for what he said. Sam did NOT."

For the last time. Dean apologized for what he said in that phone call, and for pushing Sam away. What, exactly did Sam say in that phone call that was worthy of an apology? Should he have been sorry that he thought his brother would care that the Devil appeared to him in a dream and told him he was going to possess Sam's body? Or for wanting to come back? For wanting redemption? For what? Sam didn't do the pushing away in that one. He has other things that he needs to sort out, and apologize for, but that phone call isn't one of them.

" I said I'd like to see Sam "admit" placing his trust in Ruby over his brother hurt Dean. I said that I'd like for Sam to "acknowledge" it. That's all. A perfect time, I think, would have been during their final conversation in The End, but it didn't happen. And it's apparent, with Dean actually being the one to admit his own mistakes, that he's not expecting Sam to apologize. I guess we'll see if that turns out to be the case."

That would have been a perfect time. But that's the writer's fault for not putting it there. Just because he didn't apologize within 2 minutes of getting back with his brother doesn't mean he isn't sorry, or that he doesn't realize that he messed up, or how he messed up. Dean apologized for this one mistake. One mistake. Not mistakeS. Not to mention the fact that he hasn't mentioned changing his mind about there being nothing Sam could do to make it right. Giving it time means more than a two minute long scene at the end of one episode.

"I'm not blaming. I'm just pointing out what I have seen and what I'd like to see in the future. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about the writers and Sam,"

If this is you not blaming, I'd really hate to see you blaming someone. We do need to agree to disagree. From now on. About pretty much everything. I'm tired of this. Everyone else on here is capable of good, insightful, non-aggressive back and forth conversation. I am never going to worship at the altar of Dean's perfection and awesomeness, and you will never see him any other way. That's okay. We just don't need to discuss it. Besides, I wasn't going to mention it, but I thought last week you said you weren't going to come here any more. I guess you changed your mind. All I know is that I enjoy talking to people on this site, even the ones who don't agree with me, but all this back and forth with you is doing is giving me a headache.

But, Sammy is also scared, and rightly so. Besides, he SHOULD put aside his independence issue, if the danger is become Lucifer vessel at any given moment. Sam doesnt have the luxury to waste more time.

This is what I love about Sam, he put aside personal issue and concentrate on bigger problem at hand. Its positive,but also can eat him alive.

The ending is Dean accepts Sam because Sam is his brother and Sam is so grateful and doesnt seem to care whys. Because what can he do? at the very least Sam would be relieve that Dean would be easily take him down if ever Lucifer came near him. Sam is really out of option here.

And wanna bet as soon as they back to hunt together again, Dean will start to bark orders and decide what to hunt ( hunt small matters such as vampire, ghouls, ghost etc ) and what to put on hold ( hunting Lucifer) similar to what he did in season 4 when all Sam wanted was hunting Lilith and Dean wanted to hunt vampire in "monster movies"? Or avoid Lilith at all cost similar to "monster at the end of the book"? Maybe out of testing whether Sam would obey him or not? I am sure this time around Sam would not be as rebellious as he used to be and just takes it all in.

This is one of the reason that puzzle me about Supernatural. The brother who avoid problem is the one who is "right" at the end, where as the one who is " face the advesary head on" is put in the "wrong". What is the lesson they want to give? Avoid problem because eventually they will go away by itself?

My fav line of the episode: "Dean, don't do this" and "I win, so I win".

Condensing my arguments into this sweeping generalization of how you think I view Dean, merely because you don't agree with my points, is rather inappropriate, don't you think?

There's a difference in their respective situations though, as I'm certain Sam realizes.  Sam actually knew about the existence of seals and he knew Lilith was involved in breaking them.  He also knew that Lilith was testing him to see if he was strong enough to kill her.  And Sam also trusted a demon.  He worked with her and took her at her word, even knowing she was a demon.  In their last conversation in WTLB, Dean tells Sam that Ruby is poison.  Yet, he still went along with her plan.

Dean was not aware of the existence of seals prior to going to hell.  It wasn't a matter that he would break in hell, it was merely a matter of *when* he would break.  Hell is… hell.

I guess I hope that Sam understands the difference between Dean breaking the first seal while he was in hell, and he breaking the final one?

"The we and mess in this case could just as easily, from Sam's point of view, have referred to the fact that Dean didn't stop Sam.  Sam knows Dean was charged with that responsibility, and it would not be unreasonable of him to take it that way."

I suppose, but Dean was being held captive by angels, so, it's not like he really had much power to do anything. And Sam NOW knows that Zach actually wanted him to kill Lilith.  He knows that it wasn't Dean's responsibility to stop HIM.  It's Dean's responsibility to stop Lucifer.

But I still wish that this conversation about Dean being the one who started it would have happened onscreen, and if I'm wrong (which I very well could be) maybe there's still a chance it will?

"I'm valiantly resisting the urge to bash my head against the desk here."

Well, with that rather patronizing remark, I'll leave the discussion.

And I certainly did point out that Dean's choices were leading to his mistaken notion that he had to de-humanize himself to defeat his enemy:

"All of Dean's choices this season were leading up to this. He was determined to cut off the emotional ties that have been used by the enemy in the past and will probably be used again. It was clear to him and he was determined to stay on course, to clean up his mess, to save the world."

I may understand Dean's point of view and motivations (just as I understand Sam's point of view and motivations to reunite), but I'm still glad that he admitted he was wrong to come to the conclusion that he and Sam were better off separated.  I agree that he was wrong to only see the relationship as something that would weaken their ability to defeat Lucifer.

But Dean's response in that phone conversation was merely the final culmination of Dean's choices to separate himself (both physically and emotionally) from Sam ever since Sam left. I think that's what he realized was the mistake — choices he made (along the way) that lead him to that response.  I don't think Dean would be willing to work with Sam again or willing to place his trust and faith in Sam again if he thought the only mistake he made was that he wanted to remain physically separate from Sam. I do think Dean is determined to repair the relationship. YMMV.

"I love how it all comes back to how it is all about Dean for you."

Heh.  Kind of like how it's all about Sam for you? But if there's something Dean should be doing, as you say, then it sort of has to be *about Dean*, right?

Dean's low self-worth has been established in canon. I think he needs to work to get past it in order to see that yes, Sam was lost and vulnerable without him. Dean knew he made a huge mistake by making that deal. He apologized to Sam for it in NRFTW. "I'm sorry Sam. It's all my fault." But I think Dean has put Sam up on a pedestal for so long, that he has a hard time seeing Sam as someone who would have such a difficult time living without him. As he told Sam in Scarecrow, he's PROUD of Sam's independence. And Dean spent most of S3 telling Sam that he's the strong one. That's something that Dean is convinced of.
 
To me, this in indicative of the low self-worth issues that have been an integral part of his characterization since the beginning. But from his self-reflection and examination of his "family issues" in DALDOM and JTS, I think (hope) he's working on this.

"I would quibble that. Sam made the call. Sam asked to come back."

Sure, but I was referring to their actual relationship ("we're stronger together" "we keep each other human") and not their individual circumstance of being vessels. And it was Sam who made the decision to separate in the first place, so it only makes sense that he would be the one to make the decision to return.

"But taking Sam's point of view into account, and how he feels about himself at the moment, as you did for Dean above, how much do you think Sam thinks he's worth right now?"

Well, Sam feels he's worthy of "redemption." I think that's a positive response.

I don't recall that Sam told Dean that he "gave a damn" about him when they found out Dean was to become a vessel for Michael.  And Sam left Dean knowing that the angel's goal is to get him to submit to allowing Michael in (and most likely resulting in Dean's death).  Zach is a manipulative SOB and really, it could have happened at any time.  

I think they both know they care about each other's safety without having to verbalize it all the time.  They're both capable hunters and they do know the risks and how to take care of themselves physically.  It's the emotional component of their relationship that needs attention from them right now.

"If we're just going to take exactly what was said, and the way it was said at surface value, Dean comes off as just as self-centered as you want to make Sam out to be. Not to mention cold, harsh, and uncaring. "

I never said Sam was self-centered.  But if you want to take the conversation at surface value (which I didn't, but I was responding to YOUR statement that Dean is cold, harsh, and uncaring) then that's fine.  But DEAN APOLOGIZED for what he said.  Sam did NOT.

"When? When was Sam supposed to have made this grand apology?"

I NEVER said anything about a "grand apology" or "groveling" or "flogging himself at Dean's feet".  I said I'd like to see Sam "admit" placing his trust in Ruby over his brother hurt Dean.  I said that I'd like for Sam to "acknowledge" it.  That's all.  A perfect time, I think,  would have been during their final conversation in The End, but it didn't happen.  And it's apparent, with Dean actually being the one to admit his own mistakes, that he's not expecting Sam to apologize.  I guess we'll see if that turns out to be the case.

"Or if you really want to throw some blame, throw it at the writers, who will hardly give Sam the time of day, much less a chance to apologize."

I'm not blaming.  I'm just pointing out what I have seen and what I'd like to see in the future.  I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about the writers and Sam, because I think this will all be reflected in Sam's ongoing redemption arc this season.

"I thought Jared was BRILLIANT as Lucifer and he was given all of 5 minutes to nail it, so what he did was really beyond BRILLIANT and my God, was he beautiful. Imagine what he could do if he was given a whole show and 2 of him to shine. Yeah, like that will ever happen. *sigh*"

You know, that's true. They've upped the ante. If they ever wanted to balance things out again (not holding my breath on that one) they now owe Samfans one episode with less than 30 seconds of Dean AND an episode with very limited Dean/Jensen as well as double the Sam. Like you said, it will never happen, but it's an interesting point.

I never cared about, or noticed screentime until In the Beginning. I began this show as a Deangirl (season 1 and part of 2), migrated straight through Bibro territory and on into Samgirl land. But not once, for either character, did I feel that the story, or screen time, was lopsided, until In the Beginning. They could not have made it any clearer which character, and which group of fans, matters most to them than they did with that episode, and now this one.

I totally agree with you on Sylvia. I love the balance of her reviews. And I dearly, dearly love this comment section, for the insightful, intelligent conversation that takes place here, and the fact that Sylvia joins our conversations.

I'm sorry you've given up. I know how you feel. I'm getting closer to that point with each episode, and I agree that the ratings are telling. People can argue timeslot all they want. We've had the same stiff competition since the beginning, and still managed to pull off some impressive ratings, when they're examined in context. That may not be the case for much longer. Though I'm curious to see if there's a jump in ratings for the next couple of episodes, now that the brothers are together again. I know that was a lot of people's complaint about the show this season.

YES how amazing would that have been to have 2009Sam meet 2014 Sam/Lucifer!!! It certainly would have been more interesting than taking the time to show Cas as a stoned hippie. But it will never happen because Kripke and co. do not care about Sam except for using him as plot device. My heart just aches for Jared.

They have used double Dean twice now (DALDOF was the other ep) and have had 2 episodes totally Dean and little Sam. So as Whiskey said, we get it … Samgirls don't matter to them (but we do for the ratings so far anyway). The show is just a showcase for Jensen. Sam was an amazing character and they ruined him to please a few very vocal fans (I really doubt they are that numerous), but sadly in the process they also ruined Dean as well.

As I said, I was responding to this in Whiskey's post:  "He only took Sam back now because he's afraid of the future he saw coming true, which is a valid reason, but not a healthy one for their relationship."   I just think it's only fair to say the same about Sam.  So, I was trying to point out that IF we're going to finger point (which is not something I prefer to do) at what is "not healthy for their relationship" then it's only fair to say the same thing about Sam.

Sorry if I was unclear.