Supernatural: The End
Through With The Twostep
by Sylvia Bond
Supernatural Episode Review – Season 5, Episode 4
“The End”
A season or so ago on the cop show Numb3rs, Don Eppes stopped wearing that thigh holster thingy, and freed me from some fairly dangerous territory where I did nothing but obsess about manly thighs clad in tight blue jeans and tightly wrapped in black thigh holsters. This combination is unholy and drastic, you know, and encasing all that muscle and bringing it into high relief is a little like torture to watch.
I do have a life, but show me Don Eppes wearing those tight blue jeans, the thigh holster, and that white button down shirt with the sleeves rolled up like he does, and I am THERE. Phew! Is it hot in here or what? But like I said, he stopped wearing that particular combo, and I was able to go on, functioning as a normal human female and enjoying watching Numb3rs like a normal person, that is, for the plot.
Then along comes THIS ep, with Future Dean wearing, except for the white shirt, pretty much the same hotty hot outfit as Don Eppes. I wanted to get this out of the way first, so there would be no mistaking that while I have a healthy appreciation for the male form, I do honestly watch Show for the plot. In particular I watch for the plot when Show produces an ep like this one. Even though I could barely concentrate on the dialog or clever story line on account of Future Dean, which is a shame, because this was a bloody good ep that left me feeling all happy and tingly inside.
The ep is nicely set up, with the prologue and the dénouement setting up strong bookends for the trip into the future that Dean makes. The bookends provide a symmetry that is sometimes missing in Show, and symmetry can, as you know, be a fearful thing, and a powerful thing and not for the weak or faint of heart. The first bookend is where we are shown how far apart the brothers are. Dean is on his own, doing gigs, exhausted and, I suspect, lonely. He begs the Soap Angel to leave him alone for four hours so he can get some sleep, which gives us a lovely peek at Dean on his own, and he seems rather unfinished without Sam at his side, wouldn’t you agree?
The Soap Angel allows Dean his few hours, though he is in a bit of a panic because “the voice is telling him” that he only has a few minutes left. Yeah, I laughed outright at this, and even more so as the Soap Angel stands by the side of the road while the crickets chirp because he doesn’t have anything better to do than to stand there and wait for Dean to sleep. That kind of behavior felt more in keeping with what an angel is, and also, a little comic relief done in the right style (as in, true to the character) works a whole lot better than slamming viewers over the head with unexpected divergings into whorehouses.
However, as soon as Dean’s sweet head is on the pillow, guess who calls? Yep, it’s brother Sam, also on the road, also exhausted. In a scene worthy of any fanfic, Sam asks (begs) Dean to take him back. Although I liked the angsty, desperate wibble of Sam’s voice, I had to question why, after Sam’s recent declaration of independence, is he choosing now to want to come back? Yes, in the last ep, there was that unfortunate incident with Bobby’s hunter pals, and yes, Sam was on the edge of realizing that where there was life, there was hope. But I felt it rather sudden for him to change his mind like that. Show has the unfortunate habit of using Sam changing his mind to switch the plot around.
Because remember, this is the guy who stubborns things out, like the four years he spent at Stanford, or sticking by Ruby in spite of all pleas to the contrary, so why on earth would he cave so quickly? In order for this to become less of a huge plothole for me, I for one would like to see backstroy to this, or at the very least, some indication from Sam (perhaps in an angsty conversation with Dean) that the Unfortunate Incident wasn’t a one off. That things like that will keep happening, over and over, until he realizes that working it on his own wasn’t going to shield him from some very difficult decisions and consequences. That running away and pretending he was normal wasn’t the answer. Sam’s job is to face up to the darkness inside, and embrace it, to use that strength to overcome the stings and arrows of outrageous fortune.
And I for one would rather see this conversion on-screen than off. Sam is part of the bookend, an essential part, but a bookend just the same, a pale shadow of himself, paper thin and uncertain and damn worried about what the future will bring. He seemed rather hollow, like a stiff breeze would blow him away. Quite the contrast to the last time we saw him with his muscles bulging and blood on his face screaming at the hunters as they left the bar. So what happened to change that?
Dean, ah, Dean. In the scene where he’s talking to Sam on the phone (and what a wonderfully painful conversation it is!), he really should not sit like that. No, not with his thighs splayed and a beer jammed up against his crotch, and that SamIloveyouSam look on his face, even as he’s saying no, no, and just no in a broken, ragged voice that is the ultimate in bromantic dialog. Specifically he says, “Whatever we have between us, love, family, whatever, they are always going to use it against us.”
This had me dropping my jaw with the implications of it. There’s an awareness here, and an honesty that I’m not used to seeing from Dean. He’s saying the absolute truth, which for Dean is as rare as an honest man. Plus, Dean, as you know, never, ever, ever says no to Sam. That’s Dean’s weakness. And Sam can’t help but be selfish and want what he wants. That’s his weakness, and it comes from being the youngest. (Believe, I know all about that.) And he can’t believe that Dean’s saying no, let alone the fact that Dean’s not all up in arms about the fact that Lucifer wants to make Sam his meatsuit.
But here, Dean says no. He says it absolutely, even if it kills him. Never mind that he looks beautiful when distressed (or that the beer bottle keeps grabbing my eye), he pulls out all the stops and says no. Sam and he are better apart, and because they’re going to kill each other if they don’t each choose their own hemisphere to occupy. Frankly it was like something out of some very fine fan fiction, the kind of story where it gets very dark and you’re pretty sure there’s no light, let alone a tunnel. It’s a beautiful scene and I knew right away that it signaled more good angst to come. (Good for me, of course, not for the boys.)
In the central part of the story, Dean wakes up. He wakes up in the same motel room he was trying to get some shut eye in before, but it’s five years in the future. As he strolls out amidst the wreckage of the world, the jagged, jumpy editing adds to the disconcerting changes. Dean comes upon a little girl spitting up blood and quickly discovers that the demon infection from the Croatoan ep has taken over. He’s a smart boy, that one.
There’s this terrific scene where the “croats” (infected humans) espy Dean and send him running. My first thought, was oh, good, Dean loves zombies and these are kind of like zombies, so this ought to be fun for him. But second, that there were too many of them, and so Dean takes off running. Running Dean is a very delicious flavor of Dean, you realize. If you don’t, then you need to see this scene. Dean Running, good lord. Run, Dean, run!
His thighs pump and his hips push, and his chest heaves, and it’s Dean, uncumbered by gravity, that thin shirt pressed against his chest, and all out, running, streaking through the shambled streets, outrunning the croats like they was a-standin’ still. Ah, artistry, thy name is action. (The MTV-esque killing of the croats to the tune of “Do You Love Me?” was fun as well. Not as fun as Running Dean, but then, what could be? Running Sam perhaps? And when’s the last time we saw THAT, I ask you?)
Zach soon shows up to inform Dean of the fate of the world, and that he has three days to contemplate the error of saying no to being the Archangel’s meatsuit. Dean soon discovers the consequences. For one, uh, Bobby is dead, and again, getting riddled with bullets seems rather harsh, even for a character I don’t particularly care for. When Dean goes to Camp Chitaqua he discovers that even the Impala is not immune to the ravages of war. Dean’s best girl occupies a low place and rests in rusty pieces. I think that this unhappy fate for his beloved car bothered Dean more than the end of the world.
Pretty soon, Dean comes across his future self. We’ll call him Future Dean. Future Dean runs a place called Camp Chitaqua, where he trains soldiers to fight against the croats and hoards toilet paper for his little army. He’s just as beautiful as the Present Dean, only he’s got a smoky, mature hardness in his eyes, and a beard-scruffed jaw, and this unholy curve to his still-kissable mouth. I bet it was quite a trick for Show to find someone as good looking as Jensen Ackles to play Future Dean! (Oh, I’m just kidding. I know perfectly well there has to be at least ONE other actor in all the land who is as pretty as Ackles. Besides Padalecki that is, but he doesn’t look anything like Ackles, so that wouldn’t have been a good fit.)
Also disconcerting is Future Dean’s habit of handcuffing Present Dean to ladders and whatnot, making Dean sit on the floor with his thighs, yes, splayed once more. Kinky much? Or is it just me whose mind goes a little wild upon such a vision? I mean, will you just look at those thighs? It’s like looking at sculpted, demin-covered, long-legged temptation. I cannot be held accountable when he sits like that. Or pay attention to much else. (Not to mention the fact that THIS is the scene where Future Dean wears that dang deal thigh holster, but let’s move on, shall we?)
There’s some fun conversation as Future Dean and Present Dean compare lock picks and bolt cutters, both of them pursing their lips in the same utterly adorable fashion. Future Dean’s got the market cornered on growly bear voices, but in context, five years in the future, with the world in shambles around his feet and not much fun to be had, I bought it. And personally, I loved the Rhonda Hurley pink panty secret; men set such a store by panties, you know, trying them on is the least of it.
There is a heartfelt discussion between Future Dean and Dean, where Future Dean reveals that “Sam didn’t make it.” There is destiny and there is fate and then there is this, staring straight into the eyes of the reality of it: that Dean has lost his Sam forever. Boys and girls, this is what Hell in a Handbasket looks like, and the realization of it is painted all over Dean’s sweet, shocked face.
Future Dean goes on an errand, and Present Dean, naturally, soon gets free, and is walking among the camp for some amusing scenes where everyone thinks he’s El Hefe. Which, naturally, Dean takes in stride. There’s an amusing bit where a woman snaps at Dean for sleeping with someone else, making me wonder whether Future Dean would actually be that loose with the morals with the destiny of the world at stake, but no matter. We are treated to a scene with Chuck the Prophet! I adore Show’s continued use of this character, the weedy, little writer guy who really just wants to be left alone to drink his whiskey and contemplate the wallpaper in silence and peace while he dreams up another story to tell.
Chuck the Prophet is exactly the same as he was five years ago, concerned more with the visible reality of what’s in his proximity than he is with the end of the world thing going on just beyond his doorstep. In fact, he’s the only character who doesn’t change, and who stays exactly the same. I thought this was an interesting reflection on the nature of writers, whose minds are always in flux, creating new worlds and new stories, but who, really, just like things around them to be constant. (Of course, that could be me, as a writer, reading too much into it!)
Next up for a meet and greet is the Soap Angel, who dresses like a hippy throwback, no doubt smokes some weed, when he can get it, and spouts nonsensical philosophy in order to entice nubile women to join his orgies. Okay, so more of the Soap Angel in Debauched Situations Joke, but this time it works because, sure, if his powers are taken away and he’s only human, I can see him doing this. (The joke is broad, to be sure, but seems to fit in more this week than it did last week.)
Future Dean returns from a sortie and promptly shoots one of his own men, who, as he explains to Dean, was infected, and his goal was not to watch the man go down in misery. The image of Future Dean doing this cold blooded thing is marvelously juxtaposed against Dean’s open-mouthed, wide-eyed, and boyish shock. The moral here is that this stern, dark-eyed and somewhat cold leader is s what Dean will become, through time, with the weight of the world on his shoulders, not to mention all that responsibility for starting the apocalypse and all. The scene is filmed out of doors, and seriously, I don’t know how Future Dean could be even more beautiful than he was five years ago, but time had seasoned him, and sculpted him and scruffed him up, and I had a very, very hard time focusing on the freaking plot, what with Future Dean’s eyes flashing fire through the dark shadowy shadows of his gaze and his mouth moving and all.
Over some whiskey and a nicely blended scene with TWO Deans (who’s the lucky girl, then?), Show develops a little plot point that I thought was interesting, and very clever of Show to lay it out like this. Future Dean shows Dean what his sortie has done, and that is bring back The Colt. The Colt, as you know, can kill just about anything, and the plan is to kill Lucifer with it. When Dean asks how Future Dean found it, Future Dean explains that he’s been searching for it for years, and that the demons moved it around a lot from place to place. But it’s a nice way of setting up future plot possibilities, as there’s nothing more interesting than a story about the search for the Magical McGuffin. Or in this case, the Gun that can Save the World. Dena now knows, through this clever dialog, that his future self figured out that this was the way to go and that, no, The Colt hasn’t been melted down into pig iron. That Dean can find it eventually, if he’s diligent enough, is quite certain.
Future Dean announces to Present Dean that Sam didn’t die, that he’s actually Lucifer’s meatsuit, which of course for Dean is worse than if Sam were dead. What The Dad had said might come to pass has, which is the worst of all possible worlds. Because what can you do with the devil but destroy him when the opportunity arises? I liked Future Dean watching Present Dean as if to see his own reactions there – his own personal, walking, talking (gorgeous) mirror, and how many people get an opportunity like that? But the real point of the scene is to remind Dean that he’s being shown all of this so that he can go back and make a different decision, i.e., letting the Archangel Michael jump inside his skin. I got very suspicious at this stage in the game as to whether Zach was telling the truth, and whether or not the whole experience was a setup for Dean, which is a nice twist that Show introduces to keep the viewer guessing.
The mission soon follows, where Future Dean takes his soldiers and Dean to a location where he is certain Lucifer is hanging out. Things go south very fast, she dies, he dies, everybody dies. Including Future Dean, who, when Dean finds him, is sprawled dying on the grass in a peaceful green garden dappled by blood-red roses. The contrast in the colors was no accident, I’m thinking. Nor was the ghost-white outfit that Lucifer’s dressed his mansuit in. Yes, it’s Evil Sam grinding his white-lofered heel into Future Dean’s neck to hold him there and snap his neck. This is the End of Times, my friends, and while it looks pretty, don’t be fooled.
I wasn’t. I mean, I wasn’t, really and truly, but with Padalecki as Evil Sam/Lucifer? I was fooled, bamboozled, beguiled, transfixed, open-mouthed, and staring. Yes, I stared. I do not know when I have last been so frakking freaked by a story development. Show is unpredictably predictable, sometimes I can call it, and sometimes I can’t. I knew that there was a chance that we’d see Sammy as Lucifer, but I thought I’d have to wait. Not get it handed to me like you’d find in that rock-your-socks-off future fic that’s out there, where Sam is Lucifer and Dean’s at his mercy. (You know the sweet one I’m talking about, ladies.)
To see it embodied? I came undone, and swear words spilled out of my mouth like I was a sailor at sea. I didn’t even know I knew those words. It was so bloody bloody marvelous and Padalecki played it with the echos of how Mark Pellegrino plays Lucifer, and the subtlety with which Padalecki picked up the nuances of the other actor’s portrayal was amazing. He had it DOWN, everything from the eyebrow and head tilt and the even-keeled tone of voice that provided an undercurrent of just out of reach creepiness that you can’t quite put your finger on. (Lord, would I love to put my finger on that.)
The whole scene was excellent but the part I loved best (besides Dean’s mantear of pain, always a nice touch) was when Evil Sam explained The Fall. He’s so sweet and unassuming in his garden, and his voiced is so cool and sedate and he’s so very, very convinced that he was wronged and robbed and that he and he alone understands the glory of God, and the beauty of his creation. I couldn’t get enough of him standing there, so pure looking and holy and that glimmer in his eye and the smirky twitch of his mouth and his smug self righteousness. And I love how he says, “I win, so…I win.”
That’s the devil’s manifesto, the I, I, I of Lucifer, he sees what he wants to see, and he hears what he wants to hear, dig? He’s very convincing, as he would be, being Lucifer, but never for a second was I worried that Dean would allow himself to be convinced. After all, this Vision of Evil is embodied by his beloved Sammy, and not for a minute does Dean forget that inside the meatsuit, somewhere, Sammy is screaming. It doesn’t matter that he said yes, and the details as to what brought Sam to such a Low Place are immaterial. The fact of the matter is that Sammy is suffering and for that fact alone Lucifer won’t be getting any green lights today.
It’s a short trip back to the present day, where Zach puts the screws to Dean to make him accept being the Archangel Michael’s meatsuit. Zach is done playing games he says, but I got the feeling that Dean’s doubts about Lucifer were nothing in comparison to his doubts about Zach. After all, Lucifer has been very clear about his motives and his goals, whereas Zach has used tricks and taunts and frankly doesn’t seem to understand the nature of God’s Love very well.
I wondered again if Zach wasn’t just tricking Dean the whole time. I mean, he can bend space and alter reality, so why not make a fake future where Dean sees the error of his ways so he’ll do what Zach wants? I’m pretty sure Dean was thinking this too. But did you think Dean was just on the verge of saying yes to Zach? I did. I was thinking, well, maybe Zach isn’t evil, maybe it’s right for Dean to say yes, and what would he be like as an angel??? He’d be glowy and white and perfect, and he’d have wings. So many fangirls would have been so happy….but Dean, in a brilliant turn of phrase says, “Nah,” to Zach’s request.
In the last bookend, Dean waits for Sam by the trestle bridge. In a sky filled with stormy clouds and with a heart, no doubt, filled with poundings and anxiety, Dean waits. Sam pulls up in a horrid yellow tank, but any car pales in comparison with the Impala, eh.
The scene is underdone and Sam is a ghostly papery version of himself, especially in contrast to the glowy and charismatic Lucifer of Future Days. He doesn’t know anything about that, of course, only that Dean’s decided to give him another chance. The scene plays like a reconciliation in a love story, except instead of a ring or a kiss, Dean gives Sam the Demon Killing Knife. There’s this moment, as Dean hefts the knife and flips it to hand the handle to Sam, that Sam jumps back. He’s almost out of his skin at that point, fearful that Dean will take it in his head to, at last, obey The Dad’s last order to him.
Sam is hurting, it’s easy to see. He’s all scrunched up and silent, barely looking at Dean for two seconds together. He can’t even find the voice to beg or plead or apologize. Instead, it’s surprisingly Dean who does the apologizing. Dean apologizes that he was wrong, and explains that they are each others weakness, they are also each other’s strengths, which is usually the way it goes. In the best stories, anyway.
Here’s what I think. Dean realizes that the Future Dean’s mistake was not in not taking on the job of the Archangel Michael’s meatsuit, but in letting Sam go in the first place. Zach is so wrong it’s not even funny. It’s not obedience to God that will win the day, God gave man free will, after all, and since He doesn’t make mistakes, He’s not going to take it back on a whim.
Free will means that the power of Love will win the day, along with faith and hope. We’ve seen all of these in various guises. Is Show reading the bible that closely? I wouldn’t be surprised. Last ep, Sam was revived by the promise of hope, and it was the destruction of faith in each other that tore the brothers apart. Some stories just never get old, do they. That’s the whole issue right there, their relationship and how it makes them strong. Two halves of a whole, they keep each other human.
As for this ep, it was so good, it’s on my top ten list (right up there with Mystery Spot, In the Beginning, A Supernatural Christmas, etc.), and there it will stay until the day I die. And it wasn’t just Future Dean’s wearing that thigh holster, honest!!
Sylvia Bond is a ten-year technical writing veteran with too many degrees under her belt to count. She lives in Colorado, but does not ski, preferring instead to spend her money and time at the annual Great American Beer Festival, taking road trips across the United States, and reading historical fiction from the comfort of her fluffy green arm chair. She has been involved in fandom since 1993 and been writing fanfic since approximately 1993. What she finds most amazing about fandom (besides the open heartedness of fans and the sheer amount of creativity) is how visible fandom has become. “In my day,” she says, “we had to hide behind P.O. boxes to get fanfic. But nowadays, people wear t-shirts that shout their affiliation and share their shiny toys on the internet.” It’s a wonderful world.
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Yay! It's Tuesday! Which means it's time for another review! Good job, Sylvia!
I think what changed Sam's mind from last week was the whole vessel revelation. That's what he called to tell Dean (much to my relief), and that seemed to be why he wanted back in so badly. I could see from Dean's facial expressions that it was supposed to be hard for him to do that, to cut Sam off, but boy his voice didn't show it. He didn't even react when Sam told him about the vessel thing. Not one bit. Sam might as well have told him that the sky was blue, for all Dean seemed to care. I know he said he's numb to revelations by now, and I get it, I don't blame him for that. The problem is, he didn't look, or sound, numb. He sounded uncaring and cold. One of my friends on another board who's a die hard Deangirl said that even she was yelling "Oh come on!" at the TV and scolding Dean for being such a jerk in that scene.
"After all, this Vision of Evil is embodied by his beloved Sammy, and not for a minute does Dean forget that inside the meatsuit, somewhere, Sammy is screaming. It doesn’t matter that he said yes, and the details as to what brought Sam to such a Low Place are immaterial."
So immaterial that they didn't even warrant an attempt at explaining. Sam? Sam who? Oh that Sam! The loser, evil freak of a younger brother Dean's been saddled with, the one who so clearly would just roll over and say yes to Lucifer that we don't even need to waste a moment of the story on why he'd do so. Oh no. That would take away from Castiel's stoner orgies and Double the Dean. Can't have that. People will totally buy it with no explanation whatsoever.
I hated this one. Of course they put me off before it even aired by merrily broadcasting the fact that Sam was barely in it. Like that was something to be proud of, or something that would entice viewers to watch. And indeed he was. Sam, the character, barely featured in this one. A brief, mostly Dean sided phone conversation, and a couple of minutes at the end. Jared fared a bit better, but all told, was he even on screen for ten minutes? I don't have time to time it out (and I would catch no end of hell if I did time it), but the fact remains that this is the second time they've seen fit to slice Sam, and Jared, pretty much right out of the story line, with absolutely NO attempt to set things to balance in screen or story time. No wonder I stopped spending my money on this show. I'm just about ready to stop spending my time on it too. I'm guessing this was the episode Jensen was referring to at Vancouver Con, when he was tongue in cheek begging us to write in and ask for more Sam, so he'd get some time off. We've tried, Jensen. No one gives a damn.
Oddly enough, I really liked Castiel in this one. What you said was spot on, Sylvia, about his characterization at the beginning. The line about the voice and the minutes cracked me up, and at least half of the fun was in the delivery. I liked Stoner!Castiel a lot better than I expected to too. The orgy scene made my skin crawl, but the rest of the time I kind of enjoyed him. Chuck was adorable, as always. Love that little guy. All he needed was a hat, and he could have been Radar. Risa was interesting, and I think that if Future Dean's morals were so far gone that he'd willingly started torturing again, and was content to use his friends as decoys, then yes, he'd play women like that. But I liked that Dean had a woman on his list of most trusted associates, the ones he'd take with him to kill the Devil, even if he was going to through them to the wolves. It's one of the reasons I've always found Dean's horndog side to be endearing rather than disgusting, because he seems to genuinely respect women.
I'm sooooo glad the brothers are back together. But I don't want to watch another 18 episodes of Dean doesn't trust Sam/Sam slinking around like a beat puppy. I hope Dean is at least TRYING to get past things, but thus far there's no proof that he is. He only took Sam back now because he's afraid of the future he saw coming true, which is a valid reason, but not a healthy one for their relationship. He didn't want Sam back; he was bullied into taking Sam back. I'm also afraid that if Dean doesn't come clean about having broken the first seal, that someone else (Lucifer, probably) is going to drop that bombshell just as the brothers are starting to fall back into the groove again and mess everything up. Then again, as you mentioned, they like to use Sam as a plot device, so who knows, he might not even bat an eyelash at the revelation that this apocalypse he thinks he single-handedly started was equally his brother's fault. Never can tell with this show.
And to your review I can heartily say "Amen". You nailed it. Top 10 all the way and not just because all the delicious Prettiness takes your breath away!
It WAS a terrific ep for so many reasons. : D
Yay! It's Tuesday! Which means it's time for another review! Good job, Sylvia!
I think what changed Sam's mind from last week was the whole vessel revelation. That's what he called to tell Dean (much to my relief), and that seemed to be why he wanted back in so badly. I could see from Dean's facial expressions that it was supposed to be hard for him to do that, to cut Sam off, but boy his voice didn't show it. He didn't even react when Sam told him about the vessel thing. Not one bit. Sam might as well have told him that the sky was blue, for all Dean seemed to care. I know he said he's numb to revelations by now, and I get it, I don't blame him for that. The problem is, he didn't look, or sound, numb. He sounded uncaring and cold. One of my friends on another board who's a die hard Deangirl said that even she was yelling "Oh come on!" at the TV and scolding Dean for being such a jerk in that scene.
"After all, this Vision of Evil is embodied by his beloved Sammy, and not for a minute does Dean forget that inside the meatsuit, somewhere, Sammy is screaming. It doesn’t matter that he said yes, and the details as to what brought Sam to such a Low Place are immaterial."
So immaterial that they didn't even warrant an attempt at explaining. Sam? Sam who? Oh that Sam! The loser, evil freak of a younger brother Dean's been saddled with, the one who so clearly would just roll over and say yes to Lucifer that we don't even need to waste a moment of the story on why he'd do so. Oh no. That would take away from Castiel's stoner orgies and Double the Dean. Can't have that. People will totally buy it with no explanation whatsoever.
I hated this one. Of course they put me off before it even aired by merrily broadcasting the fact that Sam was barely in it. Like that was something to be proud of, or something that would entice viewers to watch. And indeed he was. Sam, the character, barely featured in this one. A brief, mostly Dean sided phone conversation, and a couple of minutes at the end. Jared fared a bit better, but all told, was he even on screen for ten minutes? I don't have time to time it out (and I would catch no end of hell if I did time it), but the fact remains that this is the second time they've seen fit to slice Sam, and Jared, pretty much right out of the story line, with absolutely NO attempt to set things to balance in screen or story time. No wonder I stopped spending my money on this show. I'm just about ready to stop spending my time on it too. I'm guessing this was the episode Jensen was referring to at Vancouver Con, when he was tongue in cheek begging us to write in and ask for more Sam, so he'd get some time off. We've tried, Jensen. No one gives a damn.
Oddly enough, I really liked Castiel in this one. What you said was spot on, Sylvia, about his characterization at the beginning. The line about the voice and the minutes cracked me up, and at least half of the fun was in the delivery. I liked Stoner!Castiel a lot better than I expected to too. The orgy scene made my skin crawl, but the rest of the time I kind of enjoyed him. Chuck was adorable, as always. Love that little guy. All he needed was a hat, and he could have been Radar. Risa was interesting, and I think that if Future Dean's morals were so far gone that he'd willingly started torturing again, and was content to use his friends as decoys, then yes, he'd play women like that. But I liked that Dean had a woman on his list of most trusted associates, the ones he'd take with him to kill the Devil, even if he was going to through them to the wolves. It's one of the reasons I've always found Dean's horndog side to be endearing rather than disgusting, because he seems to genuinely respect women.
I'm sooooo glad the brothers are back together. But I don't want to watch another 18 episodes of Dean doesn't trust Sam/Sam slinking around like a beat puppy. I hope Dean is at least TRYING to get past things, but thus far there's no proof that he is. He only took Sam back now because he's afraid of the future he saw coming true, which is a valid reason, but not a healthy one for their relationship. He didn't want Sam back; he was bullied into taking Sam back. I'm also afraid that if Dean doesn't come clean about having broken the first seal, that someone else (Lucifer, probably) is going to drop that bombshell just as the brothers are starting to fall back into the groove again and mess everything up. Then again, as you mentioned, they like to use Sam as a plot device, so who knows, he might not even bat an eyelash at the revelation that this apocalypse he thinks he single-handedly started was equally his brother's fault. Never can tell with this show.
I have to add that, to me, the scariest part of Samifer was that white suit. Oh my GOD, what possessed them to put that on him? And those white shoes! Jared looks good in white but that was one scary outfit. It also annoyed me that his shirt was cream colored, but everything else was white. Why?
Whiskey, I'm sorry you didn't like this episode.
This episode displayed future events from Dean's perspective rather than Sam's, so it makes a kind of sense that Sam would be in the episode very little. But I agree that there should be a balance. It would be nice to have at least one totally Sam-centric episode to give us more insight into his character. I have hope that Sam will be more essential to the plots in Season 5, not because I've watched any spoilers or anything… this is just a hope based on Season 5 so far. In the first 3 episodes this season, we've gotten more insight into the inner workings of Sam than we are usually given in an episode.
"So immaterial that they didn't even warrant an attempt at explaining. Sam? Sam who? Oh that Sam! The loser, evil freak of a younger brother Dean's been saddled with, the one who so clearly would just roll over and say yes to Lucifer that we don't even need to waste a moment of the story on why he'd do so."
I don't think this was intended as any slight on Sam or neglect of his character. Rather, I think they didn't need to go into detail about this because Jared and Mark Pellegrino did such a wonderful job last episode of building the foundations for Lucifer's wooing of his vessel. The acting during the last scene of Free To Be You And Me was superb. With Lucifer's softly enchanting and compelling voice and Sam's teary-eyed look of fear and dread, I got the impression that Sam felt a part of himself being drawn to Lucifer, wanting to accept what Lucifer was saying. I also felt that part of his panic during the phone call with Dean in this episode was due to this very real fear that he would and COULD give in to Lucifer eventually… that he couldn't resist forever. And since this was so beautifully done, the show didn't really need to spend time detailing the exact method of his consent to Lucifer.
"I'm sooooo glad the brothers are back together."
Amen and Hallelujah!
Thanks Wynefred. : )
You're right, we've gotten more insight into Sam this season than I ever expected. But this is the second time we've gotten to see an entire episode solely from Dean's point of view, and if they're going to continue to claim that the show is about both brothers, they need to address the imbalance. Or change their tune, one or the other. I guess there's still a chance that they'll fix it, but I'm not counting about it.
I agree, that scene at the end of Free to be You and Me was incredibly powerful, and well acted. I still feel like they should have at least TRIED to explain why Sam might say yes. That's a pretty big deal, giving in to Lucifer like that, and I felt like it deserved more than three or four throwaway lines from Future!Dean.
Whiskey, I've been following your reviews since the first time I entered this site and I see we have very similar opinions. I don't think you're overzelous. You always strike me as a person who puts energy into defending her points. I'm disappointed too with the underuse of Sam's character. It's a shame because Jared is so talented and has so much to offer. He's been doing a consistently fine work ever since season 2, at least. I was particularly impressed by his portrayal of Sam's addiction last season. INWYDLS and WTLB, for instance? Wow! A heck of a perfomance. I don't think why they should introduce a third protagonist (Angel) with so much Sam to be explored.
Part 2
- But like Wynefred, I'm an optimist. I'm still hoping that Kripke and team have something good reserved for Sam. So I'll keep faith in the Show. Like you, I think that the end of Free to be You and Me was a beauty. Jared was utterly compelling – by the way he was amazing throughout that episode. The way he resisted drinking the demon blood! I was so proud. Also, I heard many people complain about the lack of an explanation for why Sam said yes. I have a strong feeling that this might be one of the surprises Kripke has in store for future episodes. Maybe they just wake up and remember what Show used to be about – TWO brothers.
Whiskey: "I think what changed Sam's mind from last week was the whole vessel revelation. That's what he called to tell Dean (much to my relief), and that seemed to be why he wanted back in so badly. I could see from Dean's facial expressions that it was supposed to be hard for him to do that, to cut Sam off, but boy his voice didn't show it. He didn't even react when Sam told him about the vessel thing. Not one bit. Sam might as well have told him that the sky was blue, for all Dean seemed to care. I know he said he's numb to revelations by now, and I get it, I don't blame him for that. The problem is, he didn't look, or sound, numb. He sounded uncaring and cold."
Yes. EXACTLY. And Dean's response was exactly what was necessary to foreshadow our introduction to "uncaring and cold" future Dean. All of Dean's choices this season were leading up to this. He was determined to cut off the emotional ties that have been used by the enemy in the past and will probably be used again. It was clear to him and he was determined to stay on course, to clean up his mess, to save the world.
But Dean doesn't have to stop being human in order to save humanity. And that was the lesson he needed to learn. He doesn't have to BE like the enemy in order to defeat them. Neither of the boys do. What they need is to "keep each other HUMAN." Emotional, messy, needy, imperfect humans. The key for Dean and Sam is to figure out how to balance their responsibility they feel to defeat the enemy/save others with their obligation to protect their loved ones. Going to the extreme one way or the other is what has cost them dearly in the past.
I think this was a huge turning point for both brothers. I'm sorry you hated the episode. I thought this episode was outstanding.
"I hope Dean is at least TRYING to get past things, but thus far there's no proof that he is. He only took Sam back now because he's afraid of the future he saw coming true, which is a valid reason, but not a healthy one for their relationship. He didn't want Sam back; he was bullied into taking Sam back."
First, let's be fair — Sam only called Dean to get back together because he found out he was to become Lucifer's vessel. He didn't tell Dean he wanted to get back together for the benefit of their relationship.
But for Dean… he went above and beyond, in my opinion. Dean didn't have to apologize, or tell Sam he was WRONG. He could have just called Sam up and said, "yeah okay, let's get back together again." But Dean did apologize to Sam. Dean didn't have to hand over the knife as a symbolic gesture of trust and faith in Sam… but he DID. Dean didn't have to say "WE keep EACH OTHER human" in order to show Sam that he has faith in him and trusts him to keep him on the right track. But he did. Dean didn't have to reassure Sam that he won't become Lucifer's vessel by saying that "they can make their own future." But he did.
I'd say there's more than enough "proof" to tell me that Dean is trying to get past things — he's reflected on the choices he's made, he's accepted that he made mistakes, he's admitted his wrong doings to Sam, and he reached out to Sam to show that he does have faith in him and that they are stronger TOGETHER.
May I ask, what more "proof" do you need from Dean?
"First, let's be fair — Sam only called Dean to get back together because he found out he was to become Lucifer's vessel. He didn't tell Dean he wanted to get back together for the benefit of their relationship". Well Lauren, I think you made some good points, but here I have to disagree. Dean dedided it was time to get back together because he feared he could lose his humanity without Sam, and Sam expressed this wish because he feared he could eventually be weak enough to give in to the Devil. So they are BOTH hoping that the strenghtening of their relationship can keep them of becoming something they don' want to. I think that attributting selfish motivations to Sam is neither fair nor correct.
You're exactly right. They're both hoping that being together will save them, and they were both motivated by fear to urge this reunion.
I think fear is only one aspect though. But even if so, why are you critical of ONLY DEAN here?
I fail to see where anyone is only critical of Dean here. Andrea and I both pointed out that they BOTH want the same thing, and that they were BOTH motivated by fear. How is that only criticizing Dean?
Oh, sorry if I was unclear. I was responding to your statement that, "He only took Sam back now because he's afraid of the future he saw coming true, which is a valid reason, but not a healthy one for their relationship." You are only critical of Dean's motivation to reunite based on the post I was responding to. Which I thought was a bit unfair to Dean since I agree, they are both motivated by fear (but I still think there's much more to it for both, as I said).
Lauren, I really, really don't wanna fight here, but I have to ask: assuming that their motivations are basically the same, why are you critical of ONLY SAM?
"First, let's be fair — Sam only called Dean to get back together because he found out he was to become Lucifer's vessel. He didn't tell Dean he wanted to get back together for the benefit of their relationship. "
If we're going to dig deep into both of their actions to explain their points of view, as you have for Dean, then I would beg to differ. One of Dean's biggest complaints was Sam hiding things from him, lying to him. Show didn't see fit to give us an exact timeline, but nothing they did give us would contradict the notion that this all went down the very same night that Lucifer appeared to Sam. It would have made sense, for Sam to hightail it out of his location once he woke up, just in case Lucifer had used it to find him. But even if it wasn't the same night, the fact remains that Sam immediately called Dean to tell him about Lucifer, something that scared, and probably shamed, Sam. He told Dean all about it and got exactly nothing in return at the time. First of all, just by calling Dean at all, that was a sign of humility. Then to tell Dean about Lucifer, was a further sign that he was trying not to repeat his previous mistakes. And finally, to ask to come back was another sign of humility, even if Sam was also motivated by fear. A pretty big contrast to how he handled things last season, and all indicators that he's trying to change, to do better, for Dean. Because he wants things to be right again, between himself and his brother. Sounds like Sam's fairly invested in fixing things to me.
"But for Dean… he went above and beyond, in my opinion. Dean didn't have to apologize, or tell Sam he was WRONG. He could have just called Sam up and said, "yeah okay, let's get back together again." But Dean did apologize to Sam. "
He didn't have to apologize. But he should have. He was wrong. The way he handled that phone call was hurtful and an apology was in order. It's good that he did, and a step in the right direction. The knife was another, though I hope the way Sam shied away when Dean flipped the knife didn't escape Dean's notice. Handing over the knife was played as a very symbolic gesture, but it was at least 50% common sense. If they're going up against demons, and if Dean doesn't want Sam to be tempted to try to use his powers again, then one of them is going to have to carry that knife. I doubt it's Sam's sole domain now; it will probably be shared between them as it always has been. Dean's words about making their own future were at least as much for his own benefit as they were for Sam's. As far as we saw, Dean didn't tell Sam about his little excursion, and at the moment Dean has as much, if not more, to fear from the future than Sam does. Kind words, but not for Sam's benefit, at least not solely for Sam's benefit.
"But even if it wasn't the same night, the fact remains that Sam immediately called Dean to tell him about Lucifer,"
We weren't given an exact timeline, I don't think?
"Because he wants things to be right again, between himself and his brother."
He may very well want that, but he did not indicate this TO DEAN in that phone call. It was all about his discovery that he is to become Lucifer's vessel and what were THEY going to do about that.
Dean was never angry with Sam about breaking the final seal, but THAT'S what Sam kept apologizing for. I would have liked for Sam to admit that he was manipulated by Ruby (which he's never admitted to Dean) and that he's sorry about choosing to trust her, rather than Dean (which he's never done). I don't expect it to happen though, and Dean doesn't seem to be bothered by Sam's lack of acknowledgement about Ruby, so I guess he's moved on.
"Kind words, but not for Sam's benefit, at least not solely for Sam's benefit."
What's wrong with those kind words and gestures by Dean being for BOTH of their benefit?
I really don't care to get into a tit for tat with you. It gets old so fast. But if that's what you insist on making it…
"We weren't given an exact timeline, I don't think?"
Exactly. We weren't. So there is just as much to say it WAS that same night, as you could find to say it wasn't.
"He may very well want that, but he did not indicate this TO DEAN in that phone call. It was all about his discovery that he is to become Lucifer's vessel and what were THEY going to do about that."
If you want to discuss what wasn't indicated in that phone call, don't forget to mention the fact that Dean failed to indicate that he gave a damn about Sam, or anything happening to him. If we're just going to take exactly what was said, and the way it was said at surface value, Dean comes off as just as self-centered as you want to make Sam out to be. Not to mention cold, harsh, and uncaring.
"Dean was never angry with Sam about breaking the final seal, but THAT'S what Sam kept apologizing for. I would have liked for Sam to admit that he was manipulated by Ruby (which he's never admitted to Dean) and that he's sorry about choosing to trust her, rather than Dean (which he's never done). I don't expect it to happen though, and Dean doesn't seem to be bothered by Sam's lack of acknowledgement about Ruby, so I guess he's moved on. "
When? When was Sam supposed to have made this grand apology? He found out at the end of the first episode what the real problem was with Dean, spent much of the next episode being tied up and salted by Rufus and Jo, and then decided to leave because he felt like he wasn't good enough to stay with Dean any longer. He then spent the next episode separated from Dean, and yes, I suppose he could have called. But what you fail to factor in is that Dean doesn't want to hear it. Not yet. He very clearly told Sam that there was NOTHING Sam could do to make this better. So what opportunity to grovel and flog himself at Dean's feet did he miss? Give him TIME. Deangirls complain that all Sam ever says is "I'm sorry" then turn around an in the next breath fillet him for not saying it again. Or if you really want to throw some blame, throw it at the writers, who will hardly give Sam the time of day, much less a chance to apologize.
"What's wrong with those kind words and gestures by Dean being for BOTH of their benefit? "
Nothing at all. You said Dean said those words to reassure Sam. I was merely pointing out that he was saying them for his own benefit as well. Now we agree. Dean said that for both of them. Not just as some gift to his brother.
"We weren't given an exact timeline, I don't think?"
Exactly. We weren't. So there is just as much to say it WAS that same night, as you could find to say it wasn't.
"He may very well want that, but he did not indicate this TO DEAN in that phone call. It was all about his discovery that he is to become Lucifer's vessel and what were THEY going to do about that."
If you want to discuss what wasn't indicated in that phone call, don't forget to mention the fact that Dean failed to indicate that he gave a damn about Sam, or anything happening to him. If we're just going to take exactly what was said, and the way it was said at surface value, Dean comes off as just as self-centered as you want to make Sam out to be. Not to mention cold, harsh, and uncaring.
"Dean was never angry with Sam about breaking the final seal, but THAT'S what Sam kept apologizing for. I would have liked for Sam to admit that he was manipulated by Ruby (which he's never admitted to Dean) and that he's sorry about choosing to trust her, rather than Dean (which he's never done). I don't expect it to happen though, and Dean doesn't seem to be bothered by Sam's lack of acknowledgement about Ruby, so I guess he's moved on. "
When? When was Sam supposed to have made this grand apology? He found out at the end of the first episode what the real problem was with Dean, spent much of the next episode being tied up and salted by Rufus and Jo, and then decided to leave because he felt like he wasn't good enough to stay with Dean any longer. He then spent the next episode separated from Dean, and yes, I suppose he could have called. But what you fail to factor in is that Dean doesn't want to hear it. Not yet. He very clearly told Sam that there was NOTHING Sam could do to make this better. So what opportunity to grovel and flog himself at Dean's feet did he miss? Give him TIME. Deangirls complain that all Sam ever says is "I'm sorry" then turn around an in the next breath fillet him for not saying it again. Or if you really want to throw some blame, throw it at the writers, who will hardly give Sam the time of day, much less a chance to apologize.
"What's wrong with those kind words and gestures by Dean being for BOTH of their benefit? "
Nothing at all. You said Dean said those words to reassure Sam. I was merely pointing out that he was saying them for his own benefit as well. Now we agree. Dean said that for both of them. Not just as some gift to his brother.
"If you want to discuss what wasn't indicated in that phone call, don't forget to mention the fact that Dean failed to indicate that he gave a damn about Sam, or anything happening to him."
I don't recall that Sam told Dean that he "gave a damn" about him when they found out Dean was to become a vessel for Michael. And Sam left Dean knowing that the angel's goal is to get him to submit to allowing Michael in (and most likely resulting in Dean's death). Zach is a manipulative SOB and really, it could have happened at any time.
I think they both know they care about each other's safety without having to verbalize it all the time. They're both capable hunters and they do know the risks and how to take care of themselves physically. It's the emotional component of their relationship that needs attention from them right now.
"If we're just going to take exactly what was said, and the way it was said at surface value, Dean comes off as just as self-centered as you want to make Sam out to be. Not to mention cold, harsh, and uncaring. "
I never said Sam was self-centered. But if you want to take the conversation at surface value (which I didn't, but I was responding to YOUR statement that Dean is cold, harsh, and uncaring) then that's fine. But DEAN APOLOGIZED for what he said. Sam did NOT.
"When? When was Sam supposed to have made this grand apology?"
I NEVER said anything about a "grand apology" or "groveling" or "flogging himself at Dean's feet". I said I'd like to see Sam "admit" placing his trust in Ruby over his brother hurt Dean. I said that I'd like for Sam to "acknowledge" it. That's all. A perfect time, I think, would have been during their final conversation in The End, but it didn't happen. And it's apparent, with Dean actually being the one to admit his own mistakes, that he's not expecting Sam to apologize. I guess we'll see if that turns out to be the case.
"Or if you really want to throw some blame, throw it at the writers, who will hardly give Sam the time of day, much less a chance to apologize."
I'm not blaming. I'm just pointing out what I have seen and what I'd like to see in the future. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about the writers and Sam, because I think this will all be reflected in Sam's ongoing redemption arc this season.
"I don't recall that Sam told Dean that he "gave a damn" about him when they found out Dean was to become a vessel for Michael. "
First of all, being a vessel for a righteous angel, though undesirable, as we know now (though Sam still doesn't know what Dean knows about what happens to vessels), is hardly the same as being told the Devil wants to wear your skin. Secondly, if Sam didn't fall apart worrying about Dean, at least he wasn't openly antagonistic about it. He didn't respond the way you clearly would have liked, but he didn't respond in a cold way either.
"I never said Sam was self-centered. But if you want to take the conversation at surface value (which I didn't, but I was responding to YOUR statement that Dean is cold, harsh, and uncaring) then that's fine. But DEAN APOLOGIZED for what he said. Sam did NOT."
For the last time. Dean apologized for what he said in that phone call, and for pushing Sam away. What, exactly did Sam say in that phone call that was worthy of an apology? Should he have been sorry that he thought his brother would care that the Devil appeared to him in a dream and told him he was going to possess Sam's body? Or for wanting to come back? For wanting redemption? For what? Sam didn't do the pushing away in that one. He has other things that he needs to sort out, and apologize for, but that phone call isn't one of them.
" I said I'd like to see Sam "admit" placing his trust in Ruby over his brother hurt Dean. I said that I'd like for Sam to "acknowledge" it. That's all. A perfect time, I think, would have been during their final conversation in The End, but it didn't happen. And it's apparent, with Dean actually being the one to admit his own mistakes, that he's not expecting Sam to apologize. I guess we'll see if that turns out to be the case."
That would have been a perfect time. But that's the writer's fault for not putting it there. Just because he didn't apologize within 2 minutes of getting back with his brother doesn't mean he isn't sorry, or that he doesn't realize that he messed up, or how he messed up. Dean apologized for this one mistake. One mistake. Not mistakeS. Not to mention the fact that he hasn't mentioned changing his mind about there being nothing Sam could do to make it right. Giving it time means more than a two minute long scene at the end of one episode.
"I'm not blaming. I'm just pointing out what I have seen and what I'd like to see in the future. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about the writers and Sam,"
If this is you not blaming, I'd really hate to see you blaming someone. We do need to agree to disagree. From now on. About pretty much everything. I'm tired of this. Everyone else on here is capable of good, insightful, non-aggressive back and forth conversation. I am never going to worship at the altar of Dean's perfection and awesomeness, and you will never see him any other way. That's okay. We just don't need to discuss it. Besides, I wasn't going to mention it, but I thought last week you said you weren't going to come here any more. I guess you changed your mind. All I know is that I enjoy talking to people on this site, even the ones who don't agree with me, but all this back and forth with you is doing is giving me a headache.
"I am never going to worship at the altar of Dean's perfection and awesomeness, and you will never see him any other way."
Condensing my arguments into this sweeping generalization of how you think I view Dean, merely because you don't agree with my points, is rather inappropriate, don't you think?
"I'd say there's more than enough "proof" to tell me that Dean is trying to get past things — he's reflected on the choices he's made, he's accepted that he made mistakes, he's admitted his wrong doings to Sam, and he reached out to Sam to show that he does have faith in him and that they are stronger TOGETHER."
Dean has reflected on the choices he made that contributed to the future he saw (the phone call). He accepted that that phone call was the catalyst for the events he saw, and he took steps to fix that. He admitted to Sam that he was wrong about that decision and that decision alone, nothing further. He allowed Sam to come back to him because of what he saw in the future, and because of the consequences their separation had. I'm not sure exactly how he expressed any faith in Sam, beyond the knife, which as I said was also a logical act. Sam said he wouldn't let Dean down and Dean said "Oh I know you won't". Not a strictly negative remark, but not a vote of confidence exactly, not given the tone it was said in. All in all, it's definitely a step in the right direction, but it's hardly a cure-all. Far from it.
As to what proof I'd like from Dean?
I'd like for him to come clean on his part in this mess. I'd like for him to realize that he's just as content to rely on Castiel, and to trust Castiel (even over Sam) as Sam was with Ruby (minus the sex and blood drinking, thank God). I would like for Dean to quit acting like he's never lied to Sam, or hidden things from Sam when it suited him, with nary an apology to be found when he was called out on it. I'd like for him to realize, in a way that's clear to the audience, that his choice to make that deal, and leave Sam behind, had a hell of a lot to do with the place Sam found himself in where Ruby could get to him. I'll make it clear, just because I know you'll jump on it otherwise, that I am NOT blaming Dean for Sam's choices. But what he did, and how he left Sam DID bring about the state of mind in Sam that Ruby exploited. It's still Sam's fault that he did what he did. Dean just needs to admit that Sam suffered while he was gone, instead of pretending Sam's life was all sunshine and roses. And lastly he needs to quit acting like Sam is the only one who needs to work on repairing their relationship. It takes two to tango, and Dean's going to have to admit that if they're ever going to have a healthy interaction again.
"All in all, it's definitely a step in the right direction, but it's hardly a cure-all. Far from it. "
Is that the problem? I mean, was Dean obligated to provide a cure-all at that very moment?
"Dean just needs to admit that Sam suffered while he was gone, instead of pretending Sam's life was all sunshine and roses."
I've never gotten the impression for Dean that he believes Sam's life was all "sunshine and roses." But I agree that Dean needs to realize that Sam values him and that he is worthy of being missed. Dean needs to realize that perhaps Sam isn't the stronger one, as he always believed. I think Dean has made some great strides in his low self-worth issues, and I think it's these issues that have prevented him from acknowledging how his absence affected Sam. That's definitely a flaw of Dean's that he needs to keep working on.
"And lastly he needs to quit acting like Sam is the only one who needs to work on repairing their relationship."
If Dean believed that Sam is the only one who needs to work on repairing their relationship, then he would not have apologized or admitted he was wrong. Again, he could have just said that he changed his mind, so let's get back together, period. But he did admit that HE made mistakes, HE was wrong and sorry about it, and HE was trying to now correct those mistakes.
I believe that Dean wants their relationship to work. And Dean is the one who made the first move in repairing it. He told Sam that they are stronger together, as a team. They do keep each other human — it's their relationship and bond that grounds both of them. I think Sam appreciated everything Dean said with his "thank you" response. Sam's response and gratitude for Dean's apology and effort at repairing their relationship seemed genuine, to me.
You know, it almost wounds me that you didn't like this ep as much as I did! I was quite surprised at my reaction and set out to convince you of why it was so good. But then, I thought you had valid points, the dearth of Sam not least of these, and yes, everything you point out, poor Sam, relegated to being a Guest Towel in his own story. But I thought the story itself (Sam or no Sam) had a certain style to it that I liked very much. And however distant Dean is acting, I cannot for one minute think that he doesn't care about Sam or isn't affected by the distance between them, or what Sam's going through. Pity Show doesn't want to go there and show us, in spite of the fact that personally, the SHOWING of those emotions is what I'd like to wallow in.
YES! Chuck was Radar, I was thinking the exact same thing while I was watching! His character is such a hoot, and an honest addition to the storyline. Or at least I think so now, at first I kept askking myself, what? Who? Now, I simply adore him. And I agree that Dean respects women, but he was willing to throw *anyone* to the wolves to save the world; just another sign of how hardened he'd become without Sam at his side.
For some reason, I am always surprised when someone points out that Sam doesn't know that Dean broke the first seal, but you're not the first to mention it to me, and wonder about the fallout when Dean DOES find out. I keep thinking surely he'd know by now? And Sam would be totally understanding, right? Not sure why it feels like a big plot point to most folks, but it does. In my little pea brain, I'm like, oh, yeah, they've already talked about this….
Maybe they did the off white for contrast? So he wasn't perfectly white? And also to throw off the eye, and thus the soul….
Argh! The site ate my comment!! *sigh* I don't have the time or energy to type it out again right now.
This episode messed up my week! I want to watch it over and over…damn the DVR!
Two things stick in my head – Dean saying "nah" to Zach…the way he does it and him pulling out the knife to hand it to Sam…I really thought he was going to use it on Sam!!! What was I thinking!!…and the background music while he waits for Sam…haunting!
I understand why Sam decided to get back with Dean… I figured a visit from Lucifer would make me jump right back into the hunt. I think that scared him so badly. He needed to have someone by his side. So on that point, I disagree… it felt right. As did Dean's saying no.
For me, the best line and the truest was Dean saying at the end. that together they keep each other human. Sam has his demon blood thing and Dean knows he can torture and be just as evil (only in non-supernatural way).
Sam was wrong though that they have not choice… this IS their choice — to be together , to fight, to keep each other human.
Can we ask that Dean wears that thigh holster every other episode?? It would be very very nice. But I agree, you don't really hear the dialogue anymore when that occurs.
Great great ep.
I vote for THIGH HOLSTERS for both Dean AND SAM. Every day. EVery minute of every day. Okay? YES? Everyone with me? Good.
You are right, I think, in that Sam was freaked and already on his way back to Dean (?) by the time he called Dean and was pretty much arrived by the time Dean called him back (?) He (Sam) knows that they need each other, and Dean knows it too – and yes, I would have been freaked out by such a meeting with Lucifer, I just wish we'd gotten to see Sam frantically packing and dialing and throwing himself into the nearest stolen car to get back to Dean. You know? I wanted to see the fallout from that scene.
Emma commented @ 9:03AM:
I know why Sam called Dean let me guess here maybe it was because Lucifer had visited him and declared your my true vessel or did you not notice that bit? and naturally that would freak Sam out .It knocjked him for six Sylvia for god sake.
Whiskey commented at 9:16AM:
Yay! It's Tuesday! Which means it's time for another review! Good job, Sylvia!
I think what changed Sam's mind from last week was the whole vessel revelation. That's what he called to tell Dean (much to my relief), and that seemed to be why he wanted back in so badly. I could see from Dean's facial expressions that it was supposed to be hard for him to do that, to cut Sam off, but boy his voice didn't show it. He didn't even react when Sam told him about the vessel thing. Not one bit. Sam might as well have told him that the sky was blue, for all Dean seemed to care. I know he said he's numb to revelations by now, and I get it, I don't blame him for that. The problem is, he didn't look, or sound, numb. He sounded uncaring and cold. One of my friends on another board who's a die hard Deangirl said that even she was yelling "Oh come on!" at the TV and scolding Dean for being such a jerk in that scene.
"After all, this Vision of Evil is embodied by his beloved Sammy, and not for a minute does Dean forget that inside the meatsuit, somewhere, Sammy is screaming. It doesn’t matter that he said yes, and the details as to what brought Sam to such a Low Place are immaterial."
So immaterial that they didn't even warrant an attempt at explaining. Sam? Sam who? Oh that Sam! The loser, evil freak of a younger brother Dean's been saddled with, the one who so clearly would just roll over and say yes to Lucifer that we don't even need to waste a moment of the story on why he'd do so. Oh no. That would take away from Castiel's stoner orgies and Double the Dean. Can't have that. People will totally buy it with no explanation whatsoever.
I hated this one. Of course they put me off before it even aired by merrily broadcasting the fact that Sam was barely in it. Like that was something to be proud of, or something that would entice viewers to watch. And indeed he was. Sam, the character, barely featured in this one. A brief, mostly Dean sided phone conversation, and a couple of minutes at the end. Jared fared a bit better, but all told, was he even on screen for ten minutes? I don't have time to time it out (and I would catch no end of hell if I did time it), but the fact remains that this is the second time they've seen fit to slice Sam, and Jared, pretty much right out of the story line, with absolutely NO attempt to set things to balance in screen or story time. No wonder I stopped spending my money on this show. I'm just about ready to stop spending my time on it too. I'm guessing this was the episode Jensen was referring to at Vancouver Con, when he was tongue in cheek begging us to wr ite in and ask for more Sam, so he'd get some time off. We've tried, Jensen. No one gives a damn.
Oddly enough, I really liked Castiel in this one. What you said was spot on, Sylvia, about his characterization at the beginning. The line about the voice and the minutes cracked me up, and at least half of the fun was in the delivery. I liked Stoner!Castiel a lot better than I expected to too. The orgy scene made my skin crawl, but the rest of the time I kind of enjoyed him. Chuck was adorable, as always. Love that little guy. All he needed was a hat, and he could have been Radar. Risa was interesting, and I think that if Future Dean's morals were so far gone that he'd willingly started torturing again, and was content to use his friends as decoys, then yes, he'd play women like that. But I liked that Dean had a woman on his list of most trusted associates, the ones he'd take with him to kill the Devil, even if he was going to through them to the wolves. It's one of the reasons I've always found Dean's horndog side to be endearing rather th an disgusting, because he seems to genuinely respect women.
I'm sooooo glad the brothers are back together. But I don't want to watch another 18 episodes of Dean doesn't trust Sam/Sam slinking around like a beat puppy. I hope Dean is at least TRYING to get past things, but thus far there's no proof that he is. He only took Sam back now because he's afraid of the future he saw coming true, which is a valid reason, but not a healthy one for their relationship. He didn't want Sam back; he was bullied into taking Sam back. I'm also afraid that if Dean doesn't come clean about having broken the first seal, that someone else (Lucifer, probably) is going to drop that bombshell just as the brothers are starting to fall back into the groove again and mess everything up. Then again, as you mentioned, they like to use Sam as a plot device, so who knows, he might not even bat an eyelash at the revelation that this apocalypse he thinks he single-handedly started was equally his brother's fault. Never ca n tell with this show.
Brenda commented at 9:19AM:
And to your review I can heartily say "Amen". You nailed it. Top 10 all the way and not just because all the delicious Prettiness takes your breath away!
Your comments didn't get eaten. . . they're just being coy and playing hard to get. I have copies of all the missing comments and have posted them below.
Thank you AlphaGirl! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Syl, perfection, as usual. The last 5 minutes or so of this ep was a balm to my tortured heart. Dean is big brother again. At the beginning of the show, I liked Dean's reason to Sam for turning him away. That they are each other's weakness and will always be used against each other. That rang true for me. At the last scene, I was reminded of the end of season 3 when Dean tells Sam that they need to stop all the deal-making and game-playing and just be what Dad taught them to be. That's what I saw happening here. Our boys are back together. Under their own terms. With things being more honest between them than they have been for a long, long time.
You put it right on the money: They are each others weakness, and each others strengths, and I think that's what I really really really liked about this ep. Sure, sure, the thigh holster? Incendiary. Dean's beautiful face? Ridiculously beautiful. The Soap Angel? Funny. Sammy Sam Sam? Sadder and more beautiful than he's ever been. But what made it GREAT is the brothers going in the direction of being brothers. I don't think they're quite there yet, and it might be a while, but like you say, they're being more honest with each other than they have been in a long time, and that, my friends, is why I WATCH this Show.
I couldn't agree more! Don Eppes does look good in a thigh holster.
I also really enjoyed this episode.
It's ridiculous how good Don and Dean looked with that thigh holster. Maybe they should be required equipment?
Sylvia, I love Don Eppes too!! By the way, Numb3rs is another of my favorite shows. Maybe I have a thing for shows about brothers and their troubled relationships. : ) Don and Charlie also deal with all those big brother/little brother issues and sibling rivalries, not to mention their unbreakable love for each other. Long live all those screen brothers that make our happiness.
AMEN to that sister!!!!!!!
Another fabulous review, Sylvia! Thanks!
"Also disconcerting is Future Dean’s habit of handcuffing Present Dean to ladders and whatnot, making Dean sit on the floor with his thighs, yes, splayed once more. Kinky much? Or is it just me whose mind goes a little wild upon such a vision? I mean, will you just look at those thighs?"
Oh, yes, I noticed his thighs! But did you also notice our Dean's eyes?? They were particularly pretty in this scene. Very large, very bright, very distracting. And those lashes!
I loved the beginning scene with Dean on the phone with Castiel, not because of the humor (which was nice) or the prettiness of Dean (which he truly was), but because Jensen played bone-tired so well that I could feel it radiating off the screen. I've done the long drives, so I could commiserate. My worst was 15 hours straight by myself on badly lit roads packed with semis in a constant downpour. When I got home from that one, I collapsed into sobs. Watching him brought back memories of that exhausting experience for me. Jensen is such a terrific actor that he can make the audience FEEL what his character is feeling.
Jared played Lucifer perfectly…. scary-perfect! I'm amazed how an actor can become someone totally different just by adjusting their facial expressions or the way they carry themselves. As soon as I saw Lucifer on screen (more than just his loafered foot), my whole being screamed at the wrongness of it… that this was definitely not Sam. Supernatural certainly has two of the very best actors in the business.
The one thing I didn't like about the episode was that it ended so quickly. The last scene with the brothers had me pulled in so completely that the end credits came as a shock, especially when they followed so swiftly on the heels of Sam's last line. I would have liked more reaction shots (or maybe a hug between the brothers) to warn my brain that the episode was ending. That sounds silly, doesn't it?
Anyway, great review. Can't wait for next week! Season 5 is off to an excellent start.
Hey, thank you!
That bone tired feeling, yes, I can relate well. Dean and Sam are used to driving long hours, but 16? My word…he must have wanted to get away from something awful fast. Like the seat beside him that was empty without Sam? (and yes, Dean has about the prettiest eyelashes in all Christendom!)
Padalecki as the devil was about as creepy a thing as I'd ever seen on Show. It was my worst nightmare come to life, except, it looked a lot like Padalecki, and there ain't nothing wrong with that, no sir!!
I think the last scene could have gone longer, but then, if I had my way we'd have the Winchester Brothers Show, you know, like the Truman Show, where they broadcast the Winchester boys in living color, 24 hours a day, seven days a year. Including Christmas. All so we could, yeah, get scenes like that. I'm pretty sure they didn't hug (too soon for that) nor was there any punching or slamming (both of them are too tired) so let's write our own ending….Sam got his crap out of the trunk, and abandoning the yellow tank, slid into the passenger seat of Dean's beloved Impala. He felt better, somehow, just sitting there, though it had been days since his stomach had been churning and the bottom of his brain was a oozing sore of bad thoughts.
"I think the last scene could have gone longer, but then, if I had my way we'd have the Winchester Brothers Show, you know, like the Truman Show, where they broadcast the Winchester boys in living color, 24 hours a day, seven days a year. Including Christmas. All so we could, yeah, get scenes like that."
What a wonderful idea! The Winchester Show. Including Christmas! I love how your brain works.
"I'm pretty sure they didn't hug (too soon for that) nor was there any punching or slamming (both of them are too tired) so let's write our own ending….Sam got his crap out of the trunk, and abandoning the yellow tank, slid into the passenger seat of Dean's beloved Impala. He felt better, somehow, just sitting there, though it had been days since his stomach had been churning and the bottom of his brain was a oozing sore of bad thoughts."
Of course you're right. It's too soon for a hug. But a fangirl can dream. And your ending is perfect.
"As for Dean, he had his car and his brother Sam at his side. Everything else? Well, they would just have to take it as it came."
(That was the ending line, but I couldn't edit my own reply!)
Yes, that ends it perfectly. Ok, I'm content now. Thanks!
Proof why it was one of Zach's tricks: Dean would've never let the Impala get rusty like this! NEVER!
ohhh you’re right! i didn’t even think about that!
"As for this ep, it was so good, it’s on my top ten list (right up there with Mystery Spot, In the Beginning, A Supernatural Christmas, etc.), and there it will stay until the day I die. And it wasn’t just Future Dean’s wearing that thigh holster, honest!!"
I am so there with you on this…. though Future Dean is a really strong argument all on his lonesome!
Future Dean was amazing and my hat really goes off to Ackles playing the two Deans with such subtle differences. Of course, he was terrible at making one of them prettier than the other one because it JUST didn't happen!!!! The thigh holster was just gravy….
Future Dean was scary. He knowingly sent Castiel to his death, along with a woman he was sleeping with. There is no way to express how wrong that was. But I did think it was needed for Dean to see how easy it could be to lose your humanity when things seem hopeless.
That is so true. What he must have gone through to make that particular decision okay….I'm pretty sure it didn't sit easy, but he was doing what had to be done…and by the way, wasn't it a very The Dad thing of him to do, eh?
cont. The Dean and Lucifer scene is probably one of my favorite scenes ever. Jensen was heartbreaking, and Jared was just awesome. As great as the dialogue was (and it was brilliant), it was Jared's use of long pauses between words that made the scene for me. Lucifer says "and then God made…….you". In that pause before "you" we see everything we need to know about Lucifer's feelings about humanity. Also, Lucifer say "we will always end up…..here" There is just something about the way he says it that I find very compelling.
It's like a fated river, isn't it? Where their destinies will always bring them to the same place, no matter what they do. That was damn creepy is all I can say. And deliciously handsome, couched in the form of Mr. J. Padalecki!
Great review as always
Thanks!
I also really enjoyed the ep…I’m not sure if it makes my top ten list, but it definitely comes close! You’re right, Future Dean was looking veryy sexy with those thigh holster thingys, so much so that I didn’t find myself missing Sam too much, despite his absence for most of the ep. Lucifer was veryyyy creepy!! It freaked me out a lot. Dean better not let that happen to Sam! I particularly liked the little touch of having Sam jump back when Dean pulled out the knife. It shows how fragile their relationship has become. Sam really believed for a second that Dean was going to kill him….and the sad thing is, I think Sam would have understood if Dean did try. I wonder if Sam would even have tried to sop him? But now they’re back together so all will be ok!……. hopefully!
I agree with everything you say here….especially the part about their relationship being so very fragile, and that Sam would absolutely stand still if Dean tried take a swipe at him. I think the poor boy is feeling like he's lower than worm dirt!! This is angst and emo at its finest. Why does it make me so happy? : D
This is in my own top 10 best episodes of the show as well. I loved it. And what's most interesting to me is how Dean's behavior/storyline since the beginning of this season ties into what he became (or what he could have become) in the future.
We see Dean in "soldier" mode almost immediately in Sympathy for the Devil. He was intensely focused on the job at hand and cleaning up the mess he and Sam made. And then after he finds out that he's the vessel for Michael, Dean's focus on finding Lucifer becomes even more apparent, and the weight of responsibility on his shoulders is made even heavier.
In Good God Y'all, Dean comes to the heartbreaking realization that others are looking to him to save them. He must make the decision to not run off after Sam in order to protect others who are counting on him. And in the end, he accepts Sam's decision to leave thinking it's for the best. He must FOCUS on the goal at hand. The survival of the world is at stake.
In Free to be You and Me, Dean starts to lose his emotional ties with people he cares about. I thought it was interesting that there was not much reaction from Dean when Castiel tells him that he will be killed by Raphael. Cas is yet another emotional tie Dean simply cannot afford. And in the final scene we find that Dean has convinced himself that he's better off alone, without his family. He's already begun to think of a life without Sam. And in The End, he makes the final break with Sam, not because of he doesn't love or care about Sam, but because he has convinced himself he needs to think in terms of strategy… he has to think like his enemy.
Dean was already well on his way to become that cold and hardened soldier that his future self became. Kudos to the writers for mapping out Dean's storyline so well and especially Edlund for bringing it all together in this episode. Kudos also to Jensen for revealing the subtle shifts in Dean's emotional state leading up to this episode. Would I have believed the Dean of earlier seasons could have possibly become 2014 Dean? Absolutely not. But did I believe that 2014 Dean was a very real possibility after seeing 2009 Dean's actions and REACTIONS this season… absolutely. He was walking down that dark path toward becoming something he despised. Yet again. Only this time he took advantage of the situation, turned the tables on Zach, and is now determined to make HIS OWN future. A future that includes his brother. And a future that allows him to BE HUMAN, emotional ties and all.
"We keep each other human."
Let's hope so.
You are so right!! And Sam is trying to come to terms with what he has done, but Dean is somehow still denying his shared responsibility for the apocalypse. There's an issue that still needs to be addressed on the show.
Cmon, it's the Impala we are talking about. You may have a point, but I don't believe it. Dean would've never ever….
I agree with Robijean and whoever else is on the list for thinking that Dean couldn't care for the Impala, that he had to give all his energy to saving the world, but it sure is an indication as to how far he's fallen.
Oh man. I think I missed the music, I was totally distracted. Thanks for pointing it out….I'll try really hard to attend to it, because the music on this Show is amazing.
Well, you never really know what Kripke has up his sleeves… he could pull this concept into another episode down the line. Remember that we didn't find out what Sam did while Dean was in Hell until well into Season 4. Maybe the show will do something else with this eventually and we'll get to experience the process that brought Sam to this point. Kripke's pulled thing together unexpectedly often enough that I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Guess I'm an optimist. Or I'm deeply entrenched in denial.
Whether you're an optimist or in denial, I'm glad that you have hope.
I had hope, but last season killed it. As you mentioned, they waited until nearly the middle of season 4 to show any of what Sam went through while Dean was gone, and when they did, it was a handful of flashbacks and a totally gratuitous sex scene. And that was it. We never learned anything else. Never saw any more of Sam's pain at having lost Dean, how he even learned to put one foot in front of the other between the time he kicked blonde Ruby out and Cortese's Ruby showed up. Was that the same day? A week later? A month? We don't know. And I guess that's why I don't have any faith left that they'll change now. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't, or that you're wrong. It just means I'm disillusioned.
OMG! I am so in love with this show! This was my favorite show of season 5.
Here is my list of ‘what i loved most this week’.
1). Sam and Dean are back together again. I was worried though, in the beginning. That phone call broke my heart. But, I was cheering out loud in the end and doing a happy dance.
2). Misha Collins was spot-on this week. Oh how I adore him. He has been such a great addition to the cast.
3). I love that Dean gave Zachariah the ‘kiss off’ at the end.
4). Ben Edlund…you own my soul
5). Toilet paper is like gold (snort)
6). Sam creeped me out as Lucifer.
7). Dean cried!
8). 'We keep each other human'…amen to that!!!!!!!
9). 'I like past you'.
10). 'The voice on the other end says I am almost out of minutes'.
11). I have to repeat again… Sam and Dean are back together again!
All in all – what a cool episode.
Sylvia – awesome review as always. You never disappoint.
Take care, Joan
Joan!!! Your list, at last it is here!
#1 Sam driving a hunk of junk broke my heart!
#2. Was Misha in this ep? (Just kidding!)
#4. Ben Edlund doesn't own my soul! Sam owns my soul! (Not kidding but being very contrary…..)
#11 is very VERY true and very worth while repeating over and over and over. They are back together again!!! The question remains, what direction will their relationship take now???
Thanks, Joan, for the fun list!
Heh Sylvia!
You are so welcome! I love putting my lists together and I am so glad you enjoy reading them.
You know, seeing Sam drive up in that car broke my heart as well. And, yes, Sam owns my soul also but some days Dean owns mine as well. I just totally get into the episodes that Ben writes. Finally, I am glad you agreed with #11. I am beyond thrilled that our BOYS are back together again!! The planets are aligned nown and all is right with the world!!! As Dean said…'They are really all they have and they keep each other human". Sam and Dean are the soul of the show and their relationship is what drew me in initially. Tension is good but the 'making up part' is so much sweeter! I am anxious to see what direction their relationship will take, going forward as well. I know the road may be a little bumpy, because, after all, they are 'Winchester's' you know.
But, I truly believe their relationship will grow stronger and they will grow even closer. They each have to let the other one be their own person. I think Sam needed to stretch his wings and Dean needed to let him. Dean has always been the big brother and Sam's protector but Sam is a grown-up now. It is hard for people to let go of roles that have defined them for so long and I think that is especially true in families. But, at the same time, I know they understand, inherently, that they need each other and they will be able to fight harder if they are on the same page. 'Two halves of a whole' is such a true statement, Sylvia.
Take care, Joan
Hi Sylvia! I am so glad you enjoyed my lists! I love creating them.
I am also curious to see what direction their relationship will take as well. But, I am hopeful. I know it is a hard to change when something is deeply engrained inside yourself and it has defined who you are as a person, for your entire life. It is extremely difficult to move on and distance yourself from it. And, this is especially true with families. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Dean has always been Sam's protector and Sam's older brother. It is definitely time for him to let Sam grow up because he hasn't been allowed to do that. Sam is very naive but he is has definitely become more of his own person as time has gone on. He wants Redemption now…not just revenge.
I truly believe this year will be a turning point for the WInchester brothers. They have always been close but I think they can be even closer as they find a way to re-build their relationship and work together. 'They are two halves of whole, they keep each other human!' Brilliant statement Sylvia.
That's exactly it, Sylvia, they need to SHOW it. Because anything beyond what they show us is pure speculation and conjecture, and as fun as it is to read that much into things, we don't know for a fact that it's true. I hate to think that Dean could actually feel that cold toward Sam, but until Show chooses to show me otherwise, based on what they are showing me, that's the only conclusion I can reach that isn't based on speculation. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for Dean to feel that way, but until his actions prove otherwise, it will continue to look like he does. I have to say that some of the clips from this week's episode haven't disproven this theory either, though I need to wait until I see them in context to judge them completely.
You're right, this episode had lovely style. It was beautifully shot, and well acted, and polished. So was In the Beginning. Still doesn't make Show's obvious favoritism any easier to swallow, especially when they seem to get a kick out of announcing the disparity before the episode even airs. To me, and I know I'm not alone, that's just a great big Eff You to Samfans, and trust me, we already get it. We're worthless to them. It's very well understood.
Hee! Great minds think alike on the Chuck as Radar thing. You're exactly right, he's an honest addition to the show. Nothing about him feels forced or over done. He is a perfect example of how you add a character to an existing cast without overdoing it. I loved him from the moment we met him. Something about him is so endearing, kind of like Andy was. Maybe it's the actors who bring that to these roles. I've seen a couple of interviews with Rob Benedict and he seems to be quite entertaining and cute, much like Gabriel Tigerman is. I don't think anyone can be quite as adorable as Gabe though.
Onscreen at least, Dean's never revealed that bit of info to Sam. Personally I feel like it's a big plot point for two reasons. First of all, as we saw with Sam apologizing to Bobby, Sam feels horribly guilty about starting the apocalypse, in addition to the way things went down with Dean. To the best of our knowledge, Sam has no reason to think that anyone other than himself is responsible for that; it's his fault and his alone, in his mind. Secondly, Dean has put so much emphasis on his hurt over Sam hiding things from him, and lying to him. I guess technically Dean hasn't lied to Sam about this, but he's certainly hiding it. So the question, to me, is what will Sam do when he finds out that his brother is equally responsible for starting this apocalypse (though his brother has been content to let Sam shoulder the full brunt of that blame up until this revelation), and that his brother, the same brother who has been so hurt about Sam hiding things, has been hiding that fact from him for quite some time? I would hope Sam would be somewhat understanding, but I also hope he wouldn't be so cowed by Dean's displeasure with him that he just ignores it all together. It seems like it would warrant some reaction at the very least.
Hmmm, the contrast thing is certainly possible. I wish they'd made something else cream though, because Jared looks better in white, but he looked better in that whole scary outfit than he had any right to, so I won't complain.
That's exactly it, Sylvia, they need to SHOW it. Because anything beyond what they show us is pure speculation and conjecture, and as fun as it is to read that much into things, we don't know for a fact that it's true. I hate to think that Dean could actually feel that cold toward Sam, but until Show chooses to show me otherwise, based on what they are showing me, that's the only conclusion I can reach that isn't based on speculation. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for Dean to feel that way, but until his actions prove otherwise, it will continue to look like he does. I have to say that some of the clips from this week's episode haven't disproven this theory either, though I need to wait until I see them in context to judge them completely.
You're right, this episode had lovely style. It was beautifully shot, and well acted, and polished. So was In the Beginning. Still doesn't make Show's obvious favoritism any easier to swallow, especially when they seem to get a kick out of announcing the disparity before the episode even airs. To me, and I know I'm not alone, that's just a great big Eff You to Samfans, and trust me, we already get it. We're worthless to them. It's very well understood.
Hee! Great minds think alike on the Chuck as Radar thing. You're exactly right, he's an honest addition to the show. Nothing about him feels forced or over done. He is a perfect example of how you add a character to an existing cast without overdoing it. I loved him from the moment we met him. Something about him is so endearing, kind of like Andy was. Maybe it's the actors who bring that to these roles. I've seen a couple of interviews with Rob Benedict and he seems to be quite entertaining and cute, much like Gabriel Tigerman is. I don't think anyone can be quite as adorable as Gabe though.
Onscreen at least, Dean's never revealed that bit of info to Sam. Personally I feel like it's a big plot point for two reasons. First of all, as we saw with Sam apologizing to Bobby, Sam feels horribly guilty about starting the apocalypse, in addition to the way things went down with Dean. To the best of our knowledge, Sam has no reason to think that anyone other than himself is responsible for that; it's his fault and his alone, in his mind. Secondly, Dean has put so much emphasis on his hurt over Sam hiding things from him, and lying to him. I guess technically Dean hasn't lied to Sam about this, but he's certainly hiding it. So the question, to me, is what will Sam do when he finds out that his brother is equally responsible for starting this apocalypse (though his brother has been content to let Sam shoulder the full brunt of that blame up until this revelation), and that his brother, the same brother who has been so hurt about Sam hiding things, has been hiding that fact from him for quite some time? I would hope Sam would be somewhat understanding, but I also hope he wouldn't be so cowed by Dean's displeasure with him that he just ignores it all together. It seems like it would warrant some reaction at the very least.
Hmmm, the contrast thing is certainly possible. I wish they'd made something else cream though, because Jared looks better in white, but he looked better in that whole scary outfit than he had any right to, so I won't complain.
Edited because I forgot to ask: Sylvia, are you still in Vancouver? I'm so jealous! I love that city.
That's exactly it, Sylvia, they need to SHOW it. Because anything beyond what they show us is pure speculation and conjecture, and as fun as it is to read that much into things, we don't know for a fact that it's true. I hate to think that Dean could actually feel that cold toward Sam, but until Show chooses to show me otherwise, based on what they are showing me, that's the only conclusion I can reach that isn't based on speculation. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for Dean to feel that way, but until his actions prove otherwise, it will continue to look like he does. I have to say that some of the clips from this week's episode haven't disproven this theory either, though I need to wait until I see them in context to judge them completely.
You're right, this episode had lovely style. It was beautifully shot, and well acted, and polished. So was In the Beginning. Still doesn't make Show's obvious favoritism any easier to swallow, especially when they seem to get a kick out of announcing the disparity before the episode even airs. To me, and I know I'm not alone, that's just a great big Eff You to Samfans, and trust me, we already get it. We're not important to them. It's very well understood.
Hee! Great minds think alike on the Chuck as Radar thing. You're exactly right, he's an honest addition to the show. Nothing about him feels forced or over done. He is a perfect example of how you add a character to an existing cast without overdoing it. I loved him from the moment we met him. Something about him is so endearing, kind of like Andy was. Maybe it's the actors who bring that to these roles. I've seen a couple of interviews with Rob Benedict and he seems to be quite entertaining and cute, much like Gabriel Tigerman is. I don't think anyone can be quite as adorable as Gabe though.
Onscreen at least, Dean's never revealed that bit of info to Sam. Personally I feel like it's a big plot point for two reasons. First of all, as we saw with Sam apologizing to Bobby, Sam feels horribly guilty about starting the apocalypse, in addition to the way things went down with Dean. To the best of our knowledge, Sam has no reason to think that anyone other than himself is responsible for that; it's his fault and his alone, in his mind. Secondly, Dean has put so much emphasis on his hurt over Sam hiding things from him, and lying to him. I guess technically Dean hasn't lied to Sam about this, but he's certainly hiding it. So the question, to me, is what will Sam do when he finds out that his brother is equally responsible for starting this apocalypse (though his brother has been content to let Sam shoulder the full brunt of that blame up until this revelation), and that his brother, the same brother who has been so hurt about Sam hiding things, has been hiding that fact from him for quite some time? I would hope Sam would be somewhat understanding, but I also hope he wouldn't be so cowed by Dean's displeasure with him that he just ignores it all together. It seems like it would warrant some reaction at the very least.
Hmmm, the contrast thing is certainly possible. I wish they'd made something else cream though, because Jared looks better in white, but he looked better in that whole scary outfit than he had any right to, so I won't complain.
Edited because I forgot to ask: Sylvia, are you still in Vancouver? I'm so jealous! I love that city.
"Onscreen at least, Dean's never revealed that bit of info to Sam."
I would have liked the reveal to be shown onscreen as well, but I really don't think that Dean's words to Sam in SFTD: "WE made this mess and WE need to clean it up" makes any sense if Dean did NOT tell Sam about breaking the first seal. Why would Sam think that Dean is also responsible for "this mess" i.e. Lucifer?
I'm valiantly resisting the urge to bash my head against the desk here.
Using the word "we" twice in one sentence does NOT constitute a revelation on this issue. If Sam knew that Dean had broken the first seal, I doubt he would have been so fervently trying to apologize to Dean for breaking the last one. If it wasn't said onscreen, or if they didn't choose to write an explainer line that made it clear that Sam had been informed, then we have to go with it not having been revealed. The we and mess in this case could just as easily, from Sam's point of view, have referred to the fact that Dean didn't stop Sam. Sam knows Dean was charged with that responsibility, and it would not be unreasonable of him to take it that way.
Whiskey, I love your posts. You always make really, really valid points. Please never stop posting.
I thought Jared was BRILLIANT as Lucifer and he was given all of 5 minutes to nail it, so what he did was really beyond BRILLIANT and my God, was he beautiful. Imagine what he could do if he was given a whole show and 2 of him to shine. Yeah, like that will ever happen. *sigh*
I feel the same way about this episode that I did for In The Beginning. I loved them and hated them at the same time. I loved them because they were good episodes and I hated them for the lack of Sam, the UNNECESSARY lack of Sam. And all that "but it was really all about Sam" is just plain BS to me. No one will ever convince me that the scene between Dean and his Mom when she reveals she hated the hunting life and was ready to run away with John should have been amazingly more powerful if it had been between Sam and her. And no one will convince me either that why Sam said Yes to Lucifer should have been shown in The End. Hey they managed to find a storyline for Cas when they could have had him gone like the rest of the angels but they couldn't manage to include Sam.
The Show has neglected Sam since last season and you can tell Kripke has no interest in him. The only writer caring about Sam is Sera Gamble and sometimes Jeremy Carver. Sam has just become a plot device for the creator's favorite boy.
The show has failed me in these major ways:
1. Sending Dean to hell and not having Sam save him forever has thrown off the balance between them. All Samgirls can relate when I say that whatever discussion we have defending Sam, the last word always is "but Dean went to hell for him." IMHO Dean went to hell because of selfishness and pride and lastly about love. He couldn't accept that he had failed to protect Sam and he couldn't live without him. In his speech over a lifeless Sam, there is not one word is about Sam himself but it is all about how it affected Dean. The final word … there is nothing Sam can ever do that will equal Dean going to hell for him (not my personal opinion).
2. Lillith was Sam's great nemesis and yet I think the number of times they interacted was 3 and very minimally at that. Compare that with the way they have had Zach and Dean interact and maybe you can understand what I mean. It just made for an ending that fell flat when Sam finally killed her because we never had a chance to get invested in this battle. We should have been cheering at her death and then been devasted and horrified to learn that it set Lucifer free. Instead Sam just looked like a fool played by Ruby.
3. They set Sam up to be in the background so that we would always have doubts about him. What was he doing with Ruby, was he going evil … just so they could use him for the reveal … oh my God! he's drinking demon blood, oh my God! he's using his powers. So he was merely there as a plot device for Dean. We never saw what he really went though after Dean's death. We got 1 episode after hallway through the season and even then it was more about hoe Ruby got her meatsuit. I would have like to have seen Sam burying Dean. I would have like to have seen Sam desperately trying to get Dean out of hell. I would have liked to have seen how he started drinking. Then maybe his self-mutilation sex with Ruby would have meant something.
4. I hate the way they constantly isolate Sam. Why have Ellen only hug Dean? Why have Cas only interact with Dean? There is so much potential for Sam and Cas to interact … an angel and the boy who prayed every day but was fed demon blood as a vulnerable baby. Why not show Sam's reaction when Dean gave the amulet to Cas? Why not show Sam's reaction to Dean's refusal to accept him back? Dean was a cold and heartless dick there and we only get his face for a final reaction? Thank God they have had Bobby be kind to him because Sam really has no one. I just loved Bobby uttering those words "I love that boy like my son" last season and this season telling Sam that his door will always be open to him. Bobby was right when he said pushing Sam away makes a coward.
part 2 to follow …
And before anyone accuses me of hating Dean, let me say you are dead wrong. I love and adore Dean. That is why Sylvia is my favorite reviewer. Even as a Samgirl, she loves both boys and I can totally relate. I just don't love what show has done to Sam. All I can say to the Deangirls is how would you feel if Dean had been treated this way and be honest.
So I have to say this is the episode that broke the camel's back for me. I have sadly removed my Pollyanna hat, Sylvia, and will not be watching the show anymore. I do no care for the Dean and Cas show and even less for the Dean and Dean show. It is interesting to note that in the 15 minute breakdown of the viewer ratings for The End, the highest number of viewers were in the first 15 minutes and the last 15 minutes (when Sam was on screen) and the ratings in general have not been good this season so far. It seems I am not alone. I will continue to tape the show and I will continue to read your reviews and if there is any sign that the show will begin to care about Sam, I will be the first to watch it again. If not, I hope Jared can move on to better projects that can appreciate his immense talent as it would not surprise me in the least if they killed off Sam. In a lot of ways, I think they already have. It just hurts me too much now to watch anymore.
Love and peace.
"I thought Jared was BRILLIANT as Lucifer and he was given all of 5 minutes to nail it, so what he did was really beyond BRILLIANT and my God, was he beautiful. Imagine what he could do if he was given a whole show and 2 of him to shine. Yeah, like that will ever happen." Tonia, I'm a diehard Samfan – though I love Dean too. For the sake of balance, we samgirls well deserve an episode with two Sams. It just crossed my mind how interesting it would be to have Sam go into the future and meet himself as the Devil. Can you imagine? Puppy dog-eyed Sammy face-to-face with deliciously malevolent Lucifer/Sam? I'd give anything to see how Jared would manage that!
From one diehard Samgirl who loves Dean too, I hear you, Andrea.
YES how amazing would that have been to have 2009Sam meet 2014 Sam/Lucifer!!! It certainly would have been more interesting than taking the time to show Cas as a stoned hippie. But it will never happen because Kripke and co. do not care about Sam except for using him as plot device. My heart just aches for Jared.
They have used double Dean twice now (DALDOF was the other ep) and have had 2 episodes totally Dean and little Sam. So as Whiskey said, we get it … Samgirls don't matter to them (but we do for the ratings so far anyway). The show is just a showcase for Jensen. Sam was an amazing character and they ruined him to please a few very vocal fans (I really doubt they are that numerous), but sadly in the process they also ruined Dean as well.
Oh wow, thank you Tonia. I tend to get a bit overzealous about things I'm interested in, but I'm very glad you enjoy my posts. : ) I find that you and I agree on a lot of things too.
"I thought Jared was BRILLIANT as Lucifer and he was given all of 5 minutes to nail it, so what he did was really beyond BRILLIANT and my God, was he beautiful. Imagine what he could do if he was given a whole show and 2 of him to shine. Yeah, like that will ever happen. *sigh*"
You know, that's true. They've upped the ante. If they ever wanted to balance things out again (not holding my breath on that one) they now owe Samfans one episode with less than 30 seconds of Dean AND an episode with very limited Dean/Jensen as well as double the Sam. Like you said, it will never happen, but it's an interesting point.
I never cared about, or noticed screentime until In the Beginning. I began this show as a Deangirl (season 1 and part of 2), migrated straight through Bibro territory and on into Samgirl land. But not once, for either character, did I feel that the story, or screen time, was lopsided, until In the Beginning. They could not have made it any clearer which character, and which group of fans, matters most to them than they did with that episode, and now this one.
I totally agree with you on Sylvia. I love the balance of her reviews. And I dearly, dearly love this comment section, for the insightful, intelligent conversation that takes place here, and the fact that Sylvia joins our conversations.
I'm sorry you've given up. I know how you feel. I'm getting closer to that point with each episode, and I agree that the ratings are telling. People can argue timeslot all they want. We've had the same stiff competition since the beginning, and still managed to pull off some impressive ratings, when they're examined in context. That may not be the case for much longer. Though I'm curious to see if there's a jump in ratings for the next couple of episodes, now that the brothers are together again. I know that was a lot of people's complaint about the show this season.
I am too a bit overzealous in my defense of Sam, but then again I have always loved defending the underdog.
I find it interesting that you started out as a Deangirl. I have been a Samgirl since ELAC which was the first show I watched. His speech at the end where he says he's not all right and feels guilty as hell just did it for me. The way Jared was holding it in but just on the verge of full out sobbing was so amazing. Sylvia wrote the most awesome review of that scene and episode.
And yes we do love Sylvia. I just love the way she appreciates BOTH boys and gives then their due when deserved. Jared is too often overlooked IMO.
Just on the side … I wanted to mention another major point the show has failed me which I realized I left out in my earlier post. And that is I wanted to be SHOWN how he started drinking the demon blood. I mean Sam was horrified and terrified when he first learned that the YED had fed him demon blood and then next thing you know he is drinking it. Big fail, show!
I'm sorry too that I can no longer am able to watch the show. I tried to hang in there but I can't any longer. The good news is that I will be reading Sylvia's reviews and reading your posts.
Take care.
Whoops, I forgot to post my actual comment on your review, Sylvia.
"Chuck the Prophet is exactly the same as he was five years ago, concerned more with the visible reality of what’s in his proximity than he is with the end of the world thing going on just beyond his doorstep. In fact, he’s the only character who doesn’t change, and who stays exactly the same. I thought this was an interesting reflection on the nature of writers, whose minds are always in flux, creating new worlds and new stories, but who, really, just like things around them to be constant. (Of course, that could be me, as a writer, reading too much into it!)"
I never thought about that, but that's a great point! I love Chuck!
"I wondered again if Zach wasn’t just tricking Dean the whole time. I mean, he can bend space and alter reality, so why not make a fake future where Dean sees the error of his ways so he’ll do what Zach wants?"
Time travel episodes always made my head hurt! I still can't decide whether this future was just a Zach construct or if it was really the future. I can't help but think that if it was merely Zach's doing then why would Castiel be so different and so… supportive of present Dean? Zach knows that Dean trusts Cas, so why not use that to his advantage and have Cas be angry at Dean for not allowing Michael in? He should use future Cas to manipulate Dean, but he doesn't. I don't know.
I also loved the Dean/Lucifer scene so much. Both Jensen and Jared were terrific. And I love that the boys are back together again. :-)
Thanks for the review, Sylvia.
"Is that the problem? I mean, was Dean obligated to provide a cure-all at that very moment? "
I never said he was. But from your comment, it seemed that you were of the opinion that Dean had gone above and beyond and therefore his part in fixing their relationship was played, and brilliantly so. I disagree. He made some right moves at the end, but this is far from over. And as a bookend to your point, neither was Sam obligated to provide, or attempt to provide, a cure-all at that very moment.
"If Dean believed that Sam is the only one who needs to work on repairing their relationship, then he would not have apologized or admitted he was wrong. Again, he could have just said that he changed his mind, so let's get back together, period. But he did admit that HE made mistakes, HE was wrong and sorry about it, and HE was trying to now correct those mistakes."
Dean admitted he made A mistake. In cutting Sam off the way he did at the beginning of the episode. Nothing more. And it was good that he admitted that; the right thing to do, for sure. But that's not the only mistake Dean has made, and he should, and I think does in some corner of his mind, know it.
"But I agree that Dean needs to realize that Sam values him and that he is worthy of being missed. Dean needs to realize that perhaps Sam isn't the stronger one, as he always believed. I think Dean has made some great strides in his low self-worth issues, and I think it's these issues that have prevented him from acknowledging how his absence affected Sam. That's definitely a flaw of Dean's that he needs to keep working on."
I love how it all comes back to how it is all about Dean for you. For whatever reasons, Dean needs to stop acting the way he has for over a season now about Sam and what he went through while Dean was gone. I don't think Dean's self-worth is as half as guttered as you do, but I suppose it's possible. But no matter what the underlying issue is, it needs to becleared up.
"And Dean is the one who made the first move in repairing it. He told Sam that they are stronger together, as a team. They do keep each other human — it's their relationship and bond that grounds both of them. I think Sam appreciated everything Dean said with his "thank you" response. Sam's response and gratitude for Dean's apology and effort at repairing their relationship seemed genuine, to me"
I would quibble that. Sam made the call. Sam asked to come back. I don't think you can honestly say Dean made the first step. He met his brother halfway. You're right, Sam's response did seem genuine. But taking Sam's point of view into account, and how he feels about himself at the moment, as you did for Dean above, how much do you think Sam thinks he's worth right now? I'd hazard a guess of somewhere between nothing and minus 100 on the scales of human worth. He hates himself. He doesn't think he's worthy of anything, much less Dean taking him back after that speech Dean made. It's not a surprise that he's grateful, nor is it wrong that he's grateful.
I'm sorry but, you think everything is unfair to Dean. I chose to focus on Dean's motivation since he was the one who was against the reunion. He was the one who changed his mind. So his motivation was the most important in that scene.
I'm not only critical of Sam. I'm just pointing out that I don't understand why it's fair to only be critical of Dean when Sam was motivated by fear as well.
As I said, I was responding to this in Whiskey's post: "He only took Sam back now because he's afraid of the future he saw coming true, which is a valid reason, but not a healthy one for their relationship." I just think it's only fair to say the same about Sam. So, I was trying to point out that IF we're going to finger point (which is not something I prefer to do) at what is "not healthy for their relationship" then it's only fair to say the same thing about Sam.
Sorry if I was unclear.
Andrea's point still holds. If you respond to a post that you think is critical only of Dean, by being critical only of Sam…how does that fix anything? What you said in your original reply to my post was not to balance things, it was to showcase how awesome Dean is by pointing out how it was really all Sam's fault. You put no blame upon Dean, rather you praised him for everything he did, neatly leaving out everything he didn't do. You can claim that you don't point fingers all you want, but what you write begs to differ.
As I said, I do believe they are BOTH motivated to get together again by more than just fear. I'm not "blaming" either of them for also being motivated by fear, but I agree it was a component of the reunion for BOTH of them. That's why I mentioned Sam. Not to place "all the blame" on him. I was responding specifically to the phone conversation.
And I certainly did point out that Dean's choices were leading to his mistaken notion that he had to de-humanize himself to defeat his enemy:
"All of Dean's choices this season were leading up to this. He was determined to cut off the emotional ties that have been used by the enemy in the past and will probably be used again. It was clear to him and he was determined to stay on course, to clean up his mess, to save the world."
I may understand Dean's point of view and motivations (just as I understand Sam's point of view and motivations to reunite), but I'm still glad that he admitted he was wrong to come to the conclusion that he and Sam were better off separated. I agree that he was wrong to only see the relationship as something that would weaken their ability to defeat Lucifer.
"Dean admitted he made A mistake. In cutting Sam off the way he did at the beginning of the episode. Nothing more."
But Dean's response in that phone conversation was merely the final culmination of Dean's choices to separate himself (both physically and emotionally) from Sam ever since Sam left. I think that's what he realized was the mistake — choices he made (along the way) that lead him to that response. I don't think Dean would be willing to work with Sam again or willing to place his trust and faith in Sam again if he thought the only mistake he made was that he wanted to remain physically separate from Sam. I do think Dean is determined to repair the relationship. YMMV.
"I love how it all comes back to how it is all about Dean for you."
Kind of like how it's all about Sam for you? ;-) But if there's something Dean should be doing, as you say, then it sort of has to be about Dean, right?
Dean's low self-worth has been established in canon. I think he needs to work to get past it in order to see that yes, Sam was lost and vulnerable without him. Dean knew he made a huge mistake by making that deal. He apologized to Sam for it in NRFTW. "I'm sorry Sam. It's all my fault." But I think Dean has put Sam up on a pedestal for so long, that he has a hard time seeing Sam as someone who would have such a difficult time living without him. As he told Sam in Scarecrow, he's PROUD of Sam's independence. And Dean spent most of S3 telling Sam that he's the strong one. That's something that Dean is convinced of.
To me, this in indicative of the low self-worth issues that have been an integral part of his characterization since the beginning. But from his self-reflection and examination of his "family issues" in DALDOM and JTS, I think (hope) he's working on this.
"I would quibble that. Sam made the call. Sam asked to come back."
Sure, but I was referring to their actual relationship ("we're stronger together" "we keep each other human") and not their individual circumstance of being vessels. And it was Sam who made the decision to separate in the first place, so it only makes sense that he would be the one to make the decision to return.
"But taking Sam's point of view into account, and how he feels about himself at the moment, as you did for Dean above, how much do you think Sam thinks he's worth right now?"
Well, Sam feels he's worthy of "redemption." I think that's a positive response.
"Dean admitted he made A mistake. In cutting Sam off the way he did at the beginning of the episode. Nothing more."
But Dean's response in that phone conversation was merely the final culmination of Dean's choices to separate himself (both physically and emotionally) from Sam ever since Sam left. I think that's what he realized was the mistake — choices he made (along the way) that lead him to that response. I don't think Dean would be willing to work with Sam again or willing to place his trust and faith in Sam again if he thought the only mistake he made was that he wanted to remain physically separate from Sam. I do think Dean is determined to repair the relationship. YMMV.
"I love how it all comes back to how it is all about Dean for you."
Heh. Kind of like how it's all about Sam for you? But if there's something Dean should be doing, as you say, then it sort of has to be *about Dean*, right?
Dean's low self-worth has been established in canon. I think he needs to work to get past it in order to see that yes, Sam was lost and vulnerable without him. Dean knew he made a huge mistake by making that deal. He apologized to Sam for it in NRFTW. "I'm sorry Sam. It's all my fault." But I think Dean has put Sam up on a pedestal for so long, that he has a hard time seeing Sam as someone who would have such a difficult time living without him. As he told Sam in Scarecrow, he's PROUD of Sam's independence. And Dean spent most of S3 telling Sam that he's the strong one. That's something that Dean is convinced of.
To me, this in indicative of the low self-worth issues that have been an integral part of his characterization since the beginning. But from his self-reflection and examination of his "family issues" in DALDOM and JTS, I think (hope) he's working on this.
"I would quibble that. Sam made the call. Sam asked to come back."
Sure, but I was referring to their actual relationship ("we're stronger together" "we keep each other human") and not their individual circumstance of being vessels. And it was Sam who made the decision to separate in the first place, so it only makes sense that he would be the one to make the decision to return.
"But taking Sam's point of view into account, and how he feels about himself at the moment, as you did for Dean above, how much do you think Sam thinks he's worth right now?"
Well, Sam feels he's worthy of "redemption." I think that's a positive response.
In Sympathy for the Devil, Zachariah said to Dean something to the effect of "You had a chance to stop your brother but you failed." Now, for all Sam knows, THIS is what Dean means when he said "We made this mess, we need to clean it up." We don't know that Dean has told anyone that he broke the first seal.
"If Sam knew that Dean had broken the first seal, I doubt he would have been so fervently trying to apologize to Dean for breaking the last one."
There's a difference in their respective situations though, as I'm certain Sam realizes. Sam actually knew about the existence of seals and he knew Lilith was involved in breaking them. He also knew that Lilith was testing him to see if he was strong enough to kill her. And Sam also trusted a demon. He worked with her and took her at her word, even knowing she was a demon. In their last conversation in WTLB, Dean tells Sam that Ruby is poison. Yet, he still went along with her plan.
Dean was not aware of the existence of seals prior to going to hell. It wasn't a matter that he would break in hell, it was merely a matter of *when* he would break. Hell is… hell.
I guess I hope that Sam understands the difference between Dean breaking the first seal while he was in hell, and he breaking the final one?
"The we and mess in this case could just as easily, from Sam's point of view, have referred to the fact that Dean didn't stop Sam. Sam knows Dean was charged with that responsibility, and it would not be unreasonable of him to take it that way."
I suppose, but Dean was being held captive by angels, so, it's not like he really had much power to do anything. And Sam NOW knows that Zach actually wanted him to kill Lilith. He knows that it wasn't Dean's responsibility to stop HIM. It's Dean's responsibility to stop Lucifer.
But I still wish that this conversation about Dean being the one who started it would have happened onscreen, and if I'm wrong (which I very well could be) maybe there's still a chance it will?
"I'm valiantly resisting the urge to bash my head against the desk here."
Well, with that rather patronizing remark, I'll leave the discussion.
I, like you also thought that Sam would not right away telling Dean about Lucifer. Sam wouldnt want their hunting together back again based on "brothers relationship" not "partnership based on ability and trust". Wasnt that one of the cause of their rift? Sam was tired of become little brother.
But, Sammy is also scared, and rightly so. Besides, he SHOULD put aside his independence issue, if the danger is become Lucifer vessel at any given moment. Sam doesnt have the luxury to waste more time.
This is what I love about Sam, he put aside personal issue and concentrate on bigger problem at hand. Its positive,but also can eat him alive.
The ending is Dean accepts Sam because Sam is his brother and Sam is so grateful and doesnt seem to care whys. Because what can he do? at the very least Sam would be relieve that Dean would be easily take him down if ever Lucifer came near him. Sam is really out of option here.
And wanna bet as soon as they back to hunt together again, Dean will start to bark orders and decide what to hunt ( hunt small matters such as vampire, ghouls, ghost etc ) and what to put on hold ( hunting Lucifer) similar to what he did in season 4 when all Sam wanted was hunting Lilith and Dean wanted to hunt vampire in "monster movies"? Or avoid Lilith at all cost similar to "monster at the end of the book"? Maybe out of testing whether Sam would obey him or not? I am sure this time around Sam would not be as rebellious as he used to be and just takes it all in.
This is one of the reason that puzzle me about Supernatural. The brother who avoid problem is the one who is "right" at the end, where as the one who is " face the advesary head on" is put in the "wrong". What is the lesson they want to give? Avoid problem because eventually they will go away by itself?
My fav line of the episode: "Dean, don't do this" and "I win, so I win".