It would make a difference, to me at least, in who he went after first. If he was there to get Sam back, it's going to be easier to talk to him and get through to him, when Ruby's not right there beside him. So when Dean saw Sam leave the room and walk off, TO ME, he should have followed Sam. But he didn't, he went after Ruby, because at that point, it seems like that's what he wanted more than anything, even getting Sam back, he wanted to kill Ruby. Of course it also seemed to me that Dean was pissed at Sam for getting out of the panic room, which isn't right, since there was no way he got out without help.

"The concept that Sam as a monster is a trigger for BOTH of them. We see it very obviously in Sam, but we can't forget that Sam himself made Dean promise to kill him if he ever turned and it was John's final instruction (literally, his "dying wish", something that rings a nice symmetry to Sam's comment about Dean's own dying wish in 4×01) to him. And this is the kid brother who Dean practically raised, who he has killed for, who he *died* for, and he's being confronted openly with the concept that he might have to kill him."

Dean might have made a different choice had he been in a non-emotional state. What I think would have been best personally would have been to agree to let Sam go off alone, then follow them and wait for another opportunity to kill Ruby. But then, there's no guarantee that would have worked either, seeing as Dean's time is literally not his own anymore – he's on the angel's clock and who knew when they might come calling?

Either way though, the truth of the matter is that he was decidedly not in an unemotional state. Dean was crying as he came to that realization. The concept was that distressing, that terrible, that it looked like it devestated him to even say it aloud. And I think part of his trauma there was anger that Sam had, from his very entrance in the scene, reduced Dean from an equal to a junior partner (for all his talk of Dean trusting him just this once, Sam immediately countermanded Dean's order about Ruby and removed him from any position of control) as well as the very deep hurt that Sam would trust a demon, would *choose* a demon, over Dean. I don't think he ever expected that. I know I didn't – I never guessed Sam had fallen so far.

I actually think this separation is good for both of them. Sam can't hurt Dean anymore if he's not around (and by hurt I'm talking emotional and physical here – if Dean had gone with, who is to say he wouldn't have gotten another beating the next time he said something Sam didn't like?) and will hopefully calm down some and recover some of his senses. Dean has his own allies with their own sources of information; if he can work with them, he can stop the apocalypse before Sam can kill Lilith, then work on saving Sam afterward.

The concept that Sam as a monster is a trigger for BOTH of them. We see it very obviously in Sam, but we can't forget that Sam himself made Dean promise to kill him if he ever turned and it was John's final instruction (literally, his "dying wish", something that rings a nice symmetry to Sam's comment about Dean's own dying wish in 4×01) to him. And this is the kid brother who Dean practically raised, who he has killed for, who he *died* for, and he's being confronted openly with the concept that he might have to kill him.

Do I think Dean will kill him? No, not at all. I don't think Dean views Sam as a monster either. Once he gets a chance to recover from the shock of Sam beating the crap out of him and strangling him and puts the hurt and emotional suffering of that aside, I think he'll probably put the blame of the incident squarely on the demon blood, possibly even removing any responsibility from Sam himself in the process (a mistake, IMHO).

If my sibling wanted to rush off in that state of mind with a demon supplying him with blood, I wouldn't allow him to go alone. When Sam made the offer to go after Lilith and Dean said he'd go, but only if it was the two of them, not with Ruby along, Dean should have agreed to take Ruby with them. He can't very well save Sam if the two of them are separated, especially as angry and hurt as they both are now. Sam forced Dean to say MONSTER. It didn't need to go that far, and it shouldn't have. Dean did NOT have to utter the words Sam would hear for the second time in his life–if you leave, don't come back!

Dean isn't the one addicted to demon blood, Sam is. And Dean should have taken the high road and agreed to go with Sam–AND Ruby–to go after Lilith. Like the Trickster said, only blood and pain are going to ensue now, because no matter how angry the Winchester brothers are at each other, the love is still there. Separated, nothing good will come of what is going to happen.

Dean does trust Sam (or did before the end of this episode, at any rate), probably more than he should. He stayed with Sam even after Sam started lying to his face, even when Dean felt like Sam was treating him like an idiot in the process. He stayed with Sam when he was keeping secrets and running out at night. He trusted Sam enough to follow his lead on several of Sam's plans this season. But he knows now that Sam is addicted to demon blood and Ruby is his prime pusher. He was more than willing to compromise and go with Sam to take out Lilith, but he had to protect his little brother by refusing to allow Ruby to go with them.

If anything, I thought that bit was yet another sign of Dean trusting too much again. He trusted that Sam would put Dean above Ruby, but the tragic answer was that he did not. Dean didn't know how far Sam had gone and so made a judgment call based on the information available to him. Honestly too, I'm glad he made the call that he did. For one, it demonstrates that he still does love and trust Sam at that point and for another this fight, painful as it was, would have been far, far worse if Dean had waited. Sam's aggression is only rising as more time passes; if the fight had happened much later, who is to say that Sam would have actually stopped at attempted murder?

I do agree that Sam in his drug-addled state probably thinks he has nothing much to live for right now but I ascribe full responsibility of that to the responsible party: Sam himself.

In Sam's drug-addled mind, he has nothing left to live for now.

Earlier we saw Dean willing to go with Sam if he left Ruby behind. When he arrived he went after Ruby because he's still blaming her for every wrong action of Sam's and felt eliminating her influence would help get back Sam. Unfortunately he failed to kill her. Sam told Dean it was his choice to act that way. It deteriorated from there with both of them saying things they shouldn't.

IMO it wouldn't make any difference if Dean had went to Sam first. His one drawn in the sand position was no Ruby and that was one condition Sam wouldn't accept to get them back together. And they both wanted to stay together but both had diametrically opposed positions on this one issue and neither one would budge on it.

What I think would have been more powerful, since they turned the tables and had Sam punch first, is if they had made Dean do what Sam has done in the past when Dean hit him. Stand back up and stand his ground, but not fight back. Or even if he had gotten up, maybe given Sam a look, and walked out the door. Mileage is going to vary on this, of course, but to me, that would have meant more. Since Dean chose to lash back, well, then he shares the blame for the physical portion of the fight. If he had refused to fight back, he would have occupied the higher ground. But it is what it is.

Then the "If you walk out that door, don't you ever come back" line. First of all, Dean made it clear when he made the choice to go into the room after Ruby instead of following Sam when he left, that his main goal was killing Ruby, not getting Sam back. I'm not saying he didn't want Sam back (though he certainly made little effort to accomplish it in this sequence), just that he wanted Ruby dead more. And I don't blame him for wanting her gone. I want her gone too. But he'd heard what Bobby said, about getting Sam back and how NOT to go about it, and then he went in there and did exactly what was guaranteed to push Sam away, rather than bring him back. Then as a parting shot he throws John's words at Sam. Dean was down, he was hurting in more ways than one, and he probably wasn't thinking clearly, I get that. But if those words were enough to push Sam away so firmly when he left for Stanford, what exactly did Dean hope to accomplish with them now? How could he have possibly thought Sam would do anything else but walk right out that door. You just had a fight, both physical and verbal, with your brother, and heard him tell you "You don't know me. You never have. And you never will", and watched him walk to the door. Now you're going to toss that kind of ultimatum at him and expect him to stay? Not gonna happen. I'm not saying Sam should have left, or hurt Dean, and he certainly shouldn't have choked him. I just can't see what Dean was hoping to accomplish there, other than to push Sam away for good.

All of which serves to make me dread the finale, rather than anticipate it. And the thought of a long, hot summer full of frustrations and questions is not appealing. I hate cliff-hangers. Hate them with a passion. Oh well, at least there will be another season. That's what I need to focus on.

See, I wanted to like this episode. I really did. I wanted to love it. And I think that at some point I might make it to loving it. But it didn't happen right away. Reading your review has helped shift my focus a bit, so maybe a rewatch will do the trick.

Among the things I loved right off the bat was, of course, Jared's acting. I thought he really knocked this one right out of the park. I've marveled all season at the change between what Jared is capable of now compared to what he used to do when he first started out. I think consistently working with high quality actors for his co-star and guest stars has really been good for him. That and I think his age is working in his favor. Jensen was good, as he always is. I do wish he'd abandon the growly Christian-Bale-as-Batman voice he used in the hallucination scene though. He's used that voice off and on for a while, and it bugs me enough that it pulls me out of the scene at times. Jim was excellent, of course. Sly too, since in an interview or on his MySpace or somewhere before this episode aired, he'd said something about how he got to belt Sam in the mouth in this one. I thought at the time it was an odd choice. Now we know it was just Jim, telling us the truth and messing with us all at the same time. Gotta love him.

Seeing Sam and Wee!Sam onscreen at the same time was a nice treat, and Colin Ford was his usual adorably awesome self. I'd love to know how he manages to mimic Jared so well with the expressions and all. Other than the scene with his younger self though, the hallucinations bugged me. Even if Sam's brain did cook up Alistair to torture him, Sam didn't know about the leather straps that Alistair used on Ruby, unless she told him about them. Even if she did, it seems odd that she would go into such detail about them, and where they were placed. And okay, sure, maybe his brain could come up with some of the straps, since there would have to be something to hold the victim down. But the chin strap? It just seemed odd to me. Plus, you'd think Sam's brain would hallucinate a rack that he actually fit on. :p His legs were hanging off from the knees down almost.

His hallucination of Mary also bugged me. Sure, I can see why they used Mary, and yes, John would have been a more logical choice, and would have made sense in the one way that Mary didn't, but I understand why they couldn't use him. Sam never knew his mother outside of pictures, except for the minute or less he saw her in Home, and again in All Hell Breaks Loose Part 1. The pictures and those glimpses would have given him enough visual data to hallucinate her, most likely, and the nightgown she was wearing made perfect sense for that, since it's the only thing he's ever seen her in. That wasn't what bugged me. What bugged me was her voice. Unless there's some never mentioned Winchester home movies floating around out there, Sam's heard Mary say a grand total of less than 30 words. That just doesn't seem like enough input for him to be able to conjure her up in the throws of detox. Nit picky, I know, but it bugged me, even in the moment.

Also, Dean's line at the beginning of the episode – "If it smells like a duck". Does Dean have a closet duck sniffing addiction? Because if he does, I think he needs an intervention of his own. Although that line does make me wonder what, exactly, does a duck smell like? I'm thinking something like a damp feather pillow with a hint of pond scum, but I could be way off.

cont.

I'm so sorry to hear that Real Life is taking a toll on you, and that you will have to take a break. I've enjoyed your comments and your feedback and your passion about Show; it's always nice to know I'm not obsessive out here all by myself. : D

Plus I loved your lists, they were fun!

A card-carrying Samgirl, eh? That's quiet a feat, considering how swoon-worthy and handsome Dean is! I love going on and on about either boy, really, it just depends on the week.

In the meantime, take care of yourself, and remember, we still have Season 5 to look forward to! Provided the brothers don't run into any more demon trouble. (On second thought, that's rather inevitable, isn't it.)

Have a great and hard working summer!

Best Regards,

Sylvia

Sam will kill Lilith and Dean will be supposed to kill Sam but he won't! he'll come up with some other solution, he'll beat the Kobiashi Maru. That's my two cents.

Best Regards,

Sylvia

Nice theory! I agree that the angels are up to something, some sort of test, maybe or a way to ease themselves out of the line of fire. Let the mud monkeys handle it!!! Sam is meant to kill Lilith and then for Dean to kill Sam, yes, but what do you want to bet that Dean will find a way NOT to do that?

Best Regards,

Sylvia

I agree – if you're going to torture the women naked? You should torture the men naked. But always, all along, like in drowning scenes, the women are nekked, and the men are mostly dressed. How is THAT fair? Don't they know their demographics are mostly women?

Like you, I'm amazed that the show doesn't get more press – we're certainly vocal to each other about it, but the world at large has never even heard of Show. I just hope the boys get more opportunities to shine.

Best Regards,

Sylvia

The mantear actually got mentioned here:

"As he waits for this to sink into Sam’s brain, a tear spills from Dean’s eye like a glittering diamond."

I didn't dwell because the point of that scene (to me) was the punch that Sam threw, which is different for him in that he usually is attentive to Dean's crying. Normally, yes, I would dwell, and dwell, and dwell…..

I also think I was a tad overwhelmed by what everything meant in this ep. I would have liked a week or two to contemplate….But I guess I have all summer to rewatch!

Here's to enjoy what should be an AWESOME last ep of the season!!!

Best Regards,

Sylvia

Best Regards,

Sylvia