Twelve Tribes Vampire Panel: Part 3

In the final part of the discussion of the impact of vampire literature and lore on society, the panelists talk about racism in vampire literature, the apocalypse, and the prospects of getting Will Smith involved in a Vampire Huntress Legend movie.

Solomon Jones: Dr. Logan, as we move forward and the storyline becomes more diverse, how do you think history is going to see this in terms of vampire lore and literature? When historians look back and say, “Leslie Banks! She wrote a black woman!” how would that be viewed in terms of where the vampire literature came from?

Dr. Logan: A lot of the vampire literature from two hundred years ago was about race. But, not in a good way. For instance, the movie version of Dracula with Bela Lugosi, he had the heavy accent, etc. and that’s significant. It was one of the few things that were true to the book, but he was someone who came from the furthest fringes of Europe where it borders on Asia and in Britain those people were considered a completely different race. And not a good race, either; a particularly low brow race. The British were into hierarchies like nobody’s business; to them the Irish were dirty, the Italians were worse than dirt. But if you went to Serbia and Transylvania, and to them, you got a completely different category of dirt. It’s important because it means that Dracula represents a minority figure who is a threat to civilization. That’s important because the British Empire is collapsing at that point in time and there’s a fear that there would be a revenge, that the colonized people would come back and overwhelm wonderful old England. So, it was a lot of racial variety in there and it was always bad. Now, it’s nice to see that it’s used in a positive way.

SJ: Dr. Gaffney, what role do vampires or demons or people from this realm play in the apocalypse? At what point does the story we’re telling become something that we should take seriously from a spiritual standpoint?

Dr. Gaffney: Those are two different questions, and I’ll start with the second. Should we take them seriously? Absolutely. There are people who talk to me about how they see the world, how they understand it, what they’re afraid of, and what they’re looking for in terms of comfort and rescue. So those are important stories. Who figures in the apocalypse? I’ll use the Biblical genre, and that’s human beings.

The figures who people fear in Biblical apocalypse are not supernatural figures, it’s not the devil, or demons. It’s empire. Whether it is the Syrian or Babylonian empires that are evoked in the the Book of Daniel or the Roman empire that’s evoked in the Apocalypse of John, it is human evil. It is the way that empire as an entity unto itself coalesces, takes power and subjects people. What’s striking about the apocalyptic genre in Biblical texts is that it’s all about human regime and they’re always cyclical, they always come crashing down. I’ve been using this song by N.E.R.D. in my class, “Sooner or Later It All Comes Crashing Down”, which is really about our economic situation, as a trope for how empires reveal. They’re going to come crashing down to deliver God’s people, but we may have to suffer for this period. The mythical number is 70 years or 400 years. It’s always striking how that evil comes from human structures.

If I may, I really did want to say about that previous question, the discussion of how the doors are open now to look at literature where the protagonists come from all over the Earth, and I think it’s been well said that we’re up against a dominant culture that still reads stories through one set of lenses. You mentioned the Twilight book, and I think it’s important to point out that series comes from a writer who’s own culture is a particular culture – it’s a Mormon, Utah culture – and if you read that book, there’s not a single person of color in that book, yet it became a New York Times bestseller because we in this country are conditioned to read ourselves through the eyes of white folk, whether we’re white or not. When the book went to Hollywood, one of the first things they did was put some colored folk in that. That story is instructive for me because it tells me that you can still be successful if you want to write out of a dominant culture and not think about anyone else. But, there’s going to come a point where you’re going to be pushed to open that up if expect to sell on a mass level.

SJ: Monique, do you see it going in that direction where you have to have a variety?

Monique Patterson: We haven’t gotten to the point where if you don’t have that, you’re dead in the water. But, we’re getting to that point where people are realizing that they can do that and actually reach more people. There’s a new awareness out there now. I’m kind of thinking about the “have to” question and I may have to think about it a little bit more. But, do you want to get to the point where you have to? I don’t know that it would be a good thing. More so, if that is part of your worldview, than that’s something you should do. I don’t think that a black writer or a white writer should feel like they have to write about a particular color or race.

SJ: Mr. Maberry, you’re a playwright as well. So, do you see yourself doing some vampire stuff on stage? How would it play on stage?

Jonathan Maberry: I’ve seen a couple of vampire plays and I haven’t been motivated to do one myself because the ones I’ve seen have been really bad. I’m not as much a fan of vampire film because I like to create the image of the character in my head. To have it cast for me isn’t as much fun. For plays, unless you get an actor who really brings a tremendous charisma – in order for an vampire to really be believable as a vampire, it’s really an acting challenge rather than a structural challenge for the play. You need to have an actor who can bring that out. If I had an actor I could write for, I could write a vampire play with an actor in mind who owned the stage. That could be a challenge.

SJ: [recording skipped]. . . . as you were going through this series that that’s the way you wanted to end it?

LA Banks: When I was fist writing, I wasn’t sure. But, as I started going through, I started following the Biblical path and breaking Biblical seals. Once I was on that path I felt like I should follow the scripture. So, the question was, where do I leave off in my story? Then how can I put my own twist to it and stay on the track? I wanted to stop before any messiah came because I didn’t want to assume that I had the ability to forecast who that might be. So I decided to stop at blowing up the world and pick it up ten years later.

Dr. Gaffney: Is that how it ends? I haven’t read The Thirteenth, yet!

SJ: We’ll all pretend we didn’t hear that. At what point did you decide to inject that type of spirituality into the series?

LA Banks: I think it was because I was looking at the cultural piece that was missing for me whenever I went to see anything in the theater. I was not afraid of these kinds of things growing up. I was more afraid of my grandmother! So, when I started off I had Maureen pouring libations and calling on her ancestors and doing Psalm 91, so when you start throwing that piece in there that leads you down that path.

SJ: This will be my final question, and I want to move down the panel. In terms of vampire lore and literature and the role it plays in our society, where do we go from here?

Monique Patterson: The possibilities are endless. It’s up to where our imaginations take us. In my business, it’s someone who has a new spin, a different take on it, or is willing to go places no one has gone before.

Dr. Logan: I have a theory that Leslie’s books helped get Obama elected. Vampires are an empty vessel and you can pour anything you want into them. So, whatever happens in the future is going to get poured into that. I’m hoping that it’s positive, but we’ll have to see.

Dr. Gaffney: I think vampire lore and literature will continue to be a safe, external reflective space to think about the things that are going on in our own society or culture, so that they become a space to think about race and racism, immigration, human sexuality and sexual orientation. They’re continuing to evolve as a space outside of ourselves and with the trajectory our society is moving in, they become a space to tear down walls, to become the other, to recognize that we are as much the other as the other. So whatever the next thing is that we wrestle with in our society, it will be a space to wrestle with that.

Jonathan Maberry: I think the direction it’s going in is one of cultural exploration. The Eurocentric vampire is coming to an end. As I mentioned earlier, there are vampires in every culture. Let’s explore some of those and at the same time explore those cultures. For example, India has over a dozen types of vampires. It’s going to have to be world vampires. The other area would be to look at the folkloric vampires rather than the cinematic version. The folkloric vampire is different and you rarely see that version in fiction or film. That’s one of the many reasons I like Leslie’s books. You see lots of different tweaks of the vampire within the same story. It’s not just one vampire, or a bunch of vampires that are the same thing.

LA Banks: I tend to agree. It’s going to go to world cultures. Once you open the consciousness of people, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. I think Obama has opened people up. Just the fact that we are now as a society more aware of what’s going on in the world. I think people became so engaged politically – people now know who the commerce secretary is! – and what people are tracking is a much higher level of detail and further reaching. That’s going to open up their experience. The one thing that we do know is that vampire literature tends to track with what’s going on in society. If things become economic and political, then you’re going to see predatory stuff in that vein in the vampire lit. Right now, we’re at a time where we’re more open culturally and we’re looking for things around the world.

Audience: [the recording skipped, but the questioner asked Jonathan Maberry a question that referenced Christopher Lee in Dracula AD 1972 and vampires as CEOs].

Jonathan Maberry: Vampires as CEOs, absolutely. It wouldn’t even be a stretch. If a newspaper broke a story that the head of one of these banking firms or multi-national corporations was a vampire, I’d go, “OK, makes sense to me.”

Audience: This is for Dr. Gaffney and Dr. Logan. Leslie’s books have a lot of empowering women on both sides, good and evil. Do you think this is going to continue to evolve?

Dr. Gaffney: If you look at the broad stroke of fiction, there are a lot that have empowering characters, powerful women both in positive and negative lights. I think what’s going to happen is that more of those are going to become mainstream and NYT bestsellers. And I think Leslie is part of that wave, I want to give her credit where credit is due, but she also stands on the shoulders of a long line of women writers, women writers of color in a dominant culture.

Dr. Logan: What she said.

SJ: You just empowered women!

Audience: I want to make a comment that Twilight does have people of color. . .

Dr. Gaffney: I was talking mostly about the vampire piece, the dominant vampire piece. You are right, there is a whole Native American family in the Twilight story that are werewolves. I should have clarified myself. I’m talking about the vampires and the human characters. I was struck by that, when they went to Arizona, they couldn’t find a single Latino.

Audience: I remember when you first talked about it being optioned for a movie. Because there is a tendency for Hollywood to make changes to suit the mainstream, is that a reason why we haven’t heard any news about it from your camp?

LA Banks: Two things are going on. One is that once we option the film, they then to find a studio that’s going to greenlight it. That means that someone is going to put enough money behind it so that you don’t have dollar store fangs. There has been a tremendous reluctance – and I’m gonna be straight with you – there are still barriers for films by people of color in the science fiction area. The science fiction area requires a lot of money. If you do a relationship film or a Tyler Perry film that doesn’t blow up streets or have a lot of computer generated images, you can go a film to 10 or 20 million dollars and make 50 to 75 at the box office. But, when you go to do a Harry Potter or an Underworld, those start at 50 or 75 million to make. If it’s perceived that your readership is a multicultural or narrow group [recording skipped here, which is unfortunate because Leslie was getting at some things that have been bugging me about science fiction and genre in general].

Audience: Will Smith is a Philadelphian. He’s all about supporting Philadelphians. I know this is fantasy, but can we contact him?

LA Banks: I tell you in all sincerity, Tananarive Due optioned The Living Blood five years ago and has the same problem. That’s an awesome series. She has these epic scenes in Ethiopia, in those temples, and she could not move forward to this point, even with Blair Underwood’s involvement. There is an extreme reluctance to take a risk doing a multicultural film – really it’s an African-American film if the lead character and a lot of the cast – there is a huge reluctance to bankroll that. I would say that we have to come out of this economic crisis first. This is risky, speculative stuff in that business, so what you’ll see now is formula stuff that they know they’ll make money from. Let me say this, too. There is an element of luck, and sometimes all it takes is one person believing in you. When I started this vampire thing I had one person who believed in me and we got a series out of it.

Read Part One

Read Part Two

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Lisa Fary’s early exposure to classic Battlestar Galactica in 1979 is largely responsible for her lifelong interest in science fiction and her childhood ambition of being an intergalactic space cowgirl. She thinks diagramming sentences is a fun alternative to Sudoku.