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	<title>Comments on: Ask an Amateur Scientist:  Palm Reading</title>
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	<description>&#34;The first boy I ever kissed ended up in a coma for three weeks.&#34; - Rogue</description>
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		<title>By: Edward D. Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/08/21/ask-an-amateur-scientist-%e2%80%a8palm-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-33705</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward D. Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinkraygun.com/?p=2962#comment-33705</guid>
		<description>One last comment:  Until one has used the teachings of palmistry  found in many books, such as Robin Gile&#039;s of palmistry in the examination of at least one thousand pairs of hands, I do not believe they are qualified to judge.  Nor would I allow a surgeon to operate on me without finishing medical school and doing his internship.  It is a highly technical subject that requires a great amount  of study as well as practical experience.  I have now well over two hundred volumes on the subject and have probably examined ten thousand pairs of hands in my twenty five years of experience.   Could have examined more but have also been a full time lawyer. There may be some bad people calling themselves palm readers, but that does not mean the profession or the subject is bad as a whole. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One last comment:  Until one has used the teachings of palmistry  found in many books, such as Robin Gile&#039;s of palmistry in the examination of at least one thousand pairs of hands, I do not believe they are qualified to judge.  Nor would I allow a surgeon to operate on me without finishing medical school and doing his internship.  It is a highly technical subject that requires a great amount  of study as well as practical experience.  I have now well over two hundred volumes on the subject and have probably examined ten thousand pairs of hands in my twenty five years of experience.   Could have examined more but have also been a full time lawyer. There may be some bad people calling themselves palm readers, but that does not mean the profession or the subject is bad as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward D. Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/08/21/ask-an-amateur-scientist-%e2%80%a8palm-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-33704</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward D. Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinkraygun.com/?p=2962#comment-33704</guid>
		<description>Here is the rest of my comment:  The scientific study of hand analysis has arrived.  The person who wrote this trash obviously does not know what he is talking about.  Robin Gile&#8217;s book is very good, though I disputed a couple of points with him.  He is an excellent palmist.  By the way, I was invited to make this presentation by the chairman of this section after he had heard a presentation I made on the subject of fingerprint behavioral correspondences to behavior at a scholar&#8217;s conference sponsored by the Mind Measurement Education Association in Taipei, Taiwan.  Come to our conference in Las Vegas in October and learn something about the subject   &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ibmbs.com/.&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://www.ibmbs.com/.&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is the rest of my comment:  The scientific study of hand analysis has arrived.  The person who wrote this trash obviously does not know what he is talking about.  Robin Gile&rsquo;s book is very good, though I disputed a couple of points with him.  He is an excellent palmist.  By the way, I was invited to make this presentation by the chairman of this section after he had heard a presentation I made on the subject of fingerprint behavioral correspondences to behavior at a scholar&rsquo;s conference sponsored by the Mind Measurement Education Association in Taipei, Taiwan.  Come to our conference in Las Vegas in October and learn something about the subject   <a href="http://www.ibmbs.com/." target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.ibmbs.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ibmbs.com/</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward D. Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/08/21/ask-an-amateur-scientist-%e2%80%a8palm-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-33702</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward D. Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinkraygun.com/?p=2962#comment-33702</guid>
		<description>For your information, the allotted time for presentation of the material in my paper on palmistry, dermatoglyphics, criminal forensic sciences and hand analysis during the Dermatoglyphics Section of the 16th World Conference of the International Union of Anthropologists and Ethnologists at the end of July at Yunan University in Kunming, China, has been extended from fifteen minutes to fifty minutes by the chairperson of that section because he considers my paper very important.  That equals the times allotted for two and a half presentations.  You will probably see this change reflected on the conference program before the conference in the last week in July, 2009. This conference, originally scheduled for 2008, was moved probably because of the earthquake that year as well as the Olympics, and more can be found at &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.icaes2008.org/defaultDo.jsp.&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;https://www.icaes2008.org/defaultDo.jsp.&lt;/a&gt;  Academics from many of the leading Universities in the world are expected to attend this week long event.  I have to split this comment here.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For your information, the allotted time for presentation of the material in my paper on palmistry, dermatoglyphics, criminal forensic sciences and hand analysis during the Dermatoglyphics Section of the 16th World Conference of the International Union of Anthropologists and Ethnologists at the end of July at Yunan University in Kunming, China, has been extended from fifteen minutes to fifty minutes by the chairperson of that section because he considers my paper very important.  That equals the times allotted for two and a half presentations.  You will probably see this change reflected on the conference program before the conference in the last week in July, 2009. This conference, originally scheduled for 2008, was moved probably because of the earthquake that year as well as the Olympics, and more can be found at <a href="https://www.icaes2008.org/defaultDo.jsp." target="_blank"></a><a href="https://www.icaes2008.org/defaultDo.jsp" rel="nofollow">https://www.icaes2008.org/defaultDo.jsp</a>.  Academics from many of the leading Universities in the world are expected to attend this week long event.  I have to split this comment here.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/08/21/ask-an-amateur-scientist-%e2%80%a8palm-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-25317</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinkraygun.com/?p=2962#comment-25317</guid>
		<description>Nice article. By all means, refrain from dumping your cash into the hands of unscrupulous palm readers. There is certainly no shortage of charlatans, cold readers and kooky people eager to make some extra dollars out there. 
 
However, there are also some of us who are interested in the &quot;hard&quot; science that explains observable correlations between the construction and movement of the human hand and human behavior. For many of us, it absolutely goes beyond superstition and vitalism. It&#039;s not so much about observing what we can&#039;t explain and then just making stuff up, but about trying to explain what we observe by seeking observable patterns. As scientists (amateur or otherwise), some of us do this - yes, even in the study of (gasp!) palmistry - by running carefully controlled experiments and recording further observations. Remember that more of the cerebral cortex goes to sensory and motor functions in the hand than to any other part of the body. Those are a lot of brain-hand connections. 
 
Most palm readers and &quot;fortune tellers&quot; out there don&#039;t know much more about what they&#039;re doing than what they&#039;ve read in the Idiot&#039;s Guide, and it would be idiotic to give your money to such a person who claims to be an expert, just as it would to give money to a physician who learned to diagnose illnesses from reading Men&#039;s Health. There are a number of serious palmists who will tell you that there is no &quot;fortune telling&quot; involved in palmistry at all. For example, the &quot;life line,&quot; also known technically as the &quot;radial longitudinal crease,&quot; is indeed an indicator of physical health, but it cannot and should never be used to predict the duration of someone&#039;s life. To do so would not only be ridiculous, but unethical.  It, and other characteristics of the hand, do correlate to certain predispositions, however, relating to both physical health and behavior. Because of this, a serious palmist can consider a subject&#039;s future just as a geneticist, psychologist, or anthropologist can, but can&#039;t predict when (or even if) that person is going to win the lottery or divorce his wife. 
 
Try looking through a palmistry book and replacing all the silly sounding terms (&quot;Jupiter finger, Mount of Luna, Line of Apollo&quot;) with more sophisticated sounding, less hokey terminology. Then try reading some of the hard to find works on dermatoglyphics, palmar creases and genetics, and body language. We no longer live in the middle ages, and while some people may still cling to the mystique of times long gone, those of us who wish to move science forward don&#039;t have to be hindered by the stigma that they perpetuate. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article. By all means, refrain from dumping your cash into the hands of unscrupulous palm readers. There is certainly no shortage of charlatans, cold readers and kooky people eager to make some extra dollars out there. </p>
<p>However, there are also some of us who are interested in the &quot;hard&quot; science that explains observable correlations between the construction and movement of the human hand and human behavior. For many of us, it absolutely goes beyond superstition and vitalism. It&#039;s not so much about observing what we can&#039;t explain and then just making stuff up, but about trying to explain what we observe by seeking observable patterns. As scientists (amateur or otherwise), some of us do this &#8211; yes, even in the study of (gasp!) palmistry &#8211; by running carefully controlled experiments and recording further observations. Remember that more of the cerebral cortex goes to sensory and motor functions in the hand than to any other part of the body. Those are a lot of brain-hand connections. </p>
<p>Most palm readers and &quot;fortune tellers&quot; out there don&#039;t know much more about what they&#039;re doing than what they&#039;ve read in the Idiot&#039;s Guide, and it would be idiotic to give your money to such a person who claims to be an expert, just as it would to give money to a physician who learned to diagnose illnesses from reading Men&#039;s Health. There are a number of serious palmists who will tell you that there is no &quot;fortune telling&quot; involved in palmistry at all. For example, the &quot;life line,&quot; also known technically as the &quot;radial longitudinal crease,&quot; is indeed an indicator of physical health, but it cannot and should never be used to predict the duration of someone&#039;s life. To do so would not only be ridiculous, but unethical.  It, and other characteristics of the hand, do correlate to certain predispositions, however, relating to both physical health and behavior. Because of this, a serious palmist can consider a subject&#039;s future just as a geneticist, psychologist, or anthropologist can, but can&#039;t predict when (or even if) that person is going to win the lottery or divorce his wife. </p>
<p>Try looking through a palmistry book and replacing all the silly sounding terms (&quot;Jupiter finger, Mount of Luna, Line of Apollo&quot;) with more sophisticated sounding, less hokey terminology. Then try reading some of the hard to find works on dermatoglyphics, palmar creases and genetics, and body language. We no longer live in the middle ages, and while some people may still cling to the mystique of times long gone, those of us who wish to move science forward don&#039;t have to be hindered by the stigma that they perpetuate.</p>
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		<title>By: News From Around The Blogosphere 8.25.08 &#171; Skepacabra</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/08/21/ask-an-amateur-scientist-%e2%80%a8palm-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-16810</link>
		<dc:creator>News From Around The Blogosphere 8.25.08 &#171; Skepacabra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 06:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinkraygun.com/?p=2962#comment-16810</guid>
		<description>[...] The Amateur Scientist stops in at cool sci-fi site Pink Raygun to debunk palm reading. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Amateur Scientist stops in at cool sci-fi site Pink Raygun to debunk palm reading. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hoobajoobah</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/08/21/ask-an-amateur-scientist-%e2%80%a8palm-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-16482</link>
		<dc:creator>Hoobajoobah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinkraygun.com/?p=2962#comment-16482</guid>
		<description>Robyn - thanks!

All true, I think you&#039;re right. I was just wondering what role a relaxing of traditional religious values may have played in that transition. I mean, go back to any point in the 19th century, and most people would have treated the idea of Ouija Boards and Palm Reading as satanism, and not to be entertained. Then you get to the mid-20th century when only satanism is regarded as satanism. And now you you get to us, where satanism is regarded as a quaint marketing tool for washed up musicians. 

So the question is: is the decline in one in some way tied to the decline of the other, or are they paralell but unrelated trends?  Did Nurse Romances go out of fashion because they were stilted and boring and no longer accurately reflect the lifestyles of most women, or did they go out of fashion because it suddenly became easier to get porn? That kind of thing. 

I honestly don&#039;t know. I&#039;m just asking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robyn &#8211; thanks!</p>
<p>All true, I think you&#8217;re right. I was just wondering what role a relaxing of traditional religious values may have played in that transition. I mean, go back to any point in the 19th century, and most people would have treated the idea of Ouija Boards and Palm Reading as satanism, and not to be entertained. Then you get to the mid-20th century when only satanism is regarded as satanism. And now you you get to us, where satanism is regarded as a quaint marketing tool for washed up musicians. </p>
<p>So the question is: is the decline in one in some way tied to the decline of the other, or are they paralell but unrelated trends?  Did Nurse Romances go out of fashion because they were stilted and boring and no longer accurately reflect the lifestyles of most women, or did they go out of fashion because it suddenly became easier to get porn? That kind of thing. </p>
<p>I honestly don&#8217;t know. I&#8217;m just asking.</p>
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		<title>By: Robyn</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/08/21/ask-an-amateur-scientist-%e2%80%a8palm-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-16473</link>
		<dc:creator>Robyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinkraygun.com/?p=2962#comment-16473</guid>
		<description>@hoobajoobah (what a great name!). I think palmistry and horoscopes started coming back into vogue in the 1920s and 30s about the same time that saw the upswelling of interest in Edgar Cayce&#039;s predictions and the &quot;unseen&quot; world. There was a resurgence of interest in Egyptian tombs, mummies, and Egyptian religion in particular. The way was probably prepared by the previous decades&#039; fascination with hygiene, health foods, and medical bunkum. 

From what I can tell, it was mostly a kind of &quot;seems like fun - bring out the ouija board - wouldn&#039;t it be a kick if something actually happened?&quot; kind of playing by people who didn&#039;t have television and wanted some sort of &quot;new&quot; diversion. There was a rising middle class with more leisure time than before. They were curious and bored probably. 

Unfortunately, the poor people who have been victimized by fortune tellers and &quot;mediums&quot; will always be with us because they WANT to believe. In fashion or out, there will always be a market for hooey.

This was a funny article, by the way. I very much enjoyed the description of the booth as seeming as though it was owned by a drag queen martial arts master with a first grade reading level (what a picture!). I&#039;ve been interested in Egyptology since I was a small child, and I&#039;d never heard about that use of crocodile feces - so thanks for that (I think).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@hoobajoobah (what a great name!). I think palmistry and horoscopes started coming back into vogue in the 1920s and 30s about the same time that saw the upswelling of interest in Edgar Cayce&#8217;s predictions and the &#8220;unseen&#8221; world. There was a resurgence of interest in Egyptian tombs, mummies, and Egyptian religion in particular. The way was probably prepared by the previous decades&#8217; fascination with hygiene, health foods, and medical bunkum. </p>
<p>From what I can tell, it was mostly a kind of &#8220;seems like fun &#8211; bring out the ouija board &#8211; wouldn&#8217;t it be a kick if something actually happened?&#8221; kind of playing by people who didn&#8217;t have television and wanted some sort of &#8220;new&#8221; diversion. There was a rising middle class with more leisure time than before. They were curious and bored probably. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, the poor people who have been victimized by fortune tellers and &#8220;mediums&#8221; will always be with us because they WANT to believe. In fashion or out, there will always be a market for hooey.</p>
<p>This was a funny article, by the way. I very much enjoyed the description of the booth as seeming as though it was owned by a drag queen martial arts master with a first grade reading level (what a picture!). I&#8217;ve been interested in Egyptology since I was a small child, and I&#8217;d never heard about that use of crocodile feces &#8211; so thanks for that (I think).</p>
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		<title>By: Hoobajoobah</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/08/21/ask-an-amateur-scientist-%e2%80%a8palm-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-16466</link>
		<dc:creator>Hoobajoobah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinkraygun.com/?p=2962#comment-16466</guid>
		<description>I remember reading an essay by Robert Heinlein once who talked about how in his childhood, things like Palmistry and Horoscopes and that kind of thing were completely dead industries and virtually unknown (in 1920 he said only 3 newspapers in the entire country ran horoscopes), and were the kinds of things that were openly laughed at by polite people. It was considered &quot;Disgusting old world stuff&quot; that should be tolerated-but-derided.  He then went on to express shock and revulsion at how this crap made a comeback after WWII, and became all-but-ubiquitous.

Heinlein assumes it was our educational system that held this crap in check, and it&#039;s decline caused it&#039;s resurgence, but the truth is: We&#039;re Americans. We&#039;ve never been all that well educated. 

I wonder if, perhaps, it was our rampant puritanism that held it down? (Because, again, though we&#039;ve never held much for book learnin&#039; as a people, we definitely were into puritanism for a long time) Once puritanism broke down, that perhaps backed up the old spiritual drain and let this stuff flood the bathrooms of our souls?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember reading an essay by Robert Heinlein once who talked about how in his childhood, things like Palmistry and Horoscopes and that kind of thing were completely dead industries and virtually unknown (in 1920 he said only 3 newspapers in the entire country ran horoscopes), and were the kinds of things that were openly laughed at by polite people. It was considered &#8220;Disgusting old world stuff&#8221; that should be tolerated-but-derided.  He then went on to express shock and revulsion at how this crap made a comeback after WWII, and became all-but-ubiquitous.</p>
<p>Heinlein assumes it was our educational system that held this crap in check, and it&#8217;s decline caused it&#8217;s resurgence, but the truth is: We&#8217;re Americans. We&#8217;ve never been all that well educated. </p>
<p>I wonder if, perhaps, it was our rampant puritanism that held it down? (Because, again, though we&#8217;ve never held much for book learnin&#8217; as a people, we definitely were into puritanism for a long time) Once puritanism broke down, that perhaps backed up the old spiritual drain and let this stuff flood the bathrooms of our souls?</p>
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