Wow! This episode really made a lot of people think.
Yet another reason why I love your site, Sylvia.
Lot’s of intellectual and thought-provoking discussion, theories and insight.

I am looking forward to next Tuesday’s review. It is going to be a long summer but knowing I have a place to go to and squee about our favorite boys will make the summer fly by.

Yes, Sylvia I am very passionate about this show!

Take care
Joan

PS. And thanks for adding your thoughts about the questions I have been thinking about for a long time.

You were not off topic, not if it was about the boys, Show, or in any way related to Samhair or Deanskin. I thought your PS was totally insightful. I’ve long wanted to postulate something similar but never could get my brain around it. I don’t think that John knew before the night of Sam’s six-month anniversary. I think he would have been a different type of man, not one who falls asleep in front of the TV. I think that shortly thereafter, he must have found some information, maybe DNA tests, or a diary of Mary’s, or some other clue that would lead him to, years later, tell Dean he might have to kill his brother. That’s been in my head for a while.

What was not previously in my head and is now there forever is the idea you’ve just presented to me here. That John was extra hard on Sam because he knew, or thought he knew, that Sam was half-demon. Were this true, the whole half-demon idea, it would explain so very, very much. Like, how Sam manages to look so demonic right before he shoots the crossroads demon, or how when he’s possesed by a demon, the fit is such a very sexy one. So thank you for that!

Yeah, it should be a fun summer. Writing recaps about existing eps is a lot easier than writing reviews of new eps!

Best Regards,

Sylvia

Thank you! I want what you want, but I fear that Show will display it’s true colors and give us something else all together. I could be appeased if Dean had his shirt off when it happened because, yes, I’m that shallow.

Enjoy Chicago Con!

Best Regards,

Sylvia

Yes, I definitely agree, which would account for John’s vengeful mission, presuming that it may have started well before Mary was killed, and the difference in how he relates to his sons. I hope that it will be a good and dark story to tell, and it would explain a lot. Of course, our great and powerful evil dictator, Kripke, already knows all, so we’ll just have to wait and see. *curses some more*

Ooops, sorry for going all off-topic with the “PS” lol

I’m glad that you’ll be continuing with S2 recaps, and I’ll have good reason to look forward to my Summer Tuesdays, now.

Cheers! xo

Dean is NOT in hell.

Robin is on De Nile River.

I loved your review to death!

I’m going to Chicago Con!

Love, Robin

Firstly, I love the idea that someone is thinking of me and sympathizing with me as I stare at the blank page, wondering what to write when all I can think of are the tears streaming down Sam’s face, and Dean’s body on the floor, bloody and broken. Because, YES, it was just too much!! So thank you for that.

I think your reaction was much like mine (except for the Lost part), and I have the utmost sympathy for you. Also, there are many more out there like you and me, if that helps. Shock, disblief, indignation – a whole host of feelings surely rippled across the land, and then the questions started coming. None of which, being spoiler free, I can answer. Whether or not Dean is in hell doesn’t matter. He suffered either way and Sam is suffering too. Oh boys.

On top of which, September is TOO far away. I’ve always said Show was mean and had it in for us. Now I am proven right!

Thank you for the vid rec! I love vids and never have enough time to watch them. I think I shall treat myself soon!

Thank you also for your kind words. I shall spend my summer writing about Season 2, and I am the luckiest girl in the world!

Best Regards,

Syliva

PS. I think you are right about Mary and the YED. At the very least, though, I don’t think she would have slept with it willingly, so I think that would be a very dark story to tell.

I have to say right off the bat that I thought of you several times over this past weekend. I tried to put myself in your shoes, and couldn’t imagine trying to write a review of this particular episode. It was just. too. much!

By the time the episode ended, my eyes were huge and round, my mouth was open, and I remained in that state until LOST was almost over (all I saw were blurry shapes on the screen, and heard indistiguishable noises coming from my TV).

I was so shocked that I simply wasn’t able to cry on Thursday. I’ve been able to re-watch twice since, and it’s become easier (and the tears fall harder), but I curse Kripke for leaving us like this until September. GAH!!

Personally, I think that Dean is in some sort of Limbo, and hasn’t fallen all the way into the depths of hell, yet. That’s my hope anyway. I have to admit that I’ve embraced Ruby lately, too. Lying, condescending demon or not, I think that, ultimately, she wants to help our heroes.

If you’re interested, the best fan-vid EVER popped up shortly after the finale: http://youtube.com/watch?v=WRP3posqo40 I hope you enjoy, and thank you for all of your wonderful recaps over Season 3. Is it September yet?

Fond regards, and enjoy your summer,
Cindi

P.S. to Joan: I think that the YED is Sam’s true father, which is why Mary apologized to him. That’s all the positing that I’ll do for today

Thank you! I hope you laughed out loud all the way through!

Best Regards,

Sylvia

I hear you, I hear you, and when you point it out that way, I see it very clearly. I personally don’t think Dean is in hell, but I can see how you would think it was a cheat (after all the bell dinging) if he is not. However, I don’t think getting him out will be easy, whether it’s Sam or himself that rescues him. A two-parter at least, since we were denied that for the finale season of the ep. If we’d had a full season, I think we would have gotten a two parter, and the development of this particular conclusion/cliffhanger would have been more solidly done. (Jeeze, how much blame can one writer’s strike take!)

As for what you want Show to return to, sign me UP. Sam’s powers will be part of the story, but they won’t be the center of it, that’s my guess. Show has made noises (when I read reviews and such) that it realizes that the MOW eps work VERY well and showcase the boys at their most interesting. (Like, when are they not interesting?)

I don’t personally think the storyline was ever about Sam and his “gifts,” I always thought it was about DEAN and his annoying brother. (A brother who was almost a freak but a little brother just the same.) So with the same show, we have different perceptions. You know, a letter to Kripke would get delivered if you addressed it right….tell Show how you feel. You never know, they just might listen. Or you might be shouting into the dark.

As for Ruby, I never disliked her as much as I disliked Bella. And frankly, had they never introduced Bella, I feel they wouldn’t have spread themselves SO think and been better able to develop Ruby. She did a lot of posing and spouting off of these little speeches, and that got old, so fast. In the end, Bella, yeah, I could see how she could be interesting. I can see how Ruby could be interesting too. Maybe, without Bella, next season she will be.

Best Regards,

Sylvia

Sam was brought back by a demonic deal, in original mint condition, or something like
it. If Dean is really dead here, I hardly think Sam’s going to make a deal with a
crossroad demon, do you? But really, I think Sam stopped it, stopped everything, the
second he stood up. He stopped the hellhounds, he stopped Dean from dying, and he
stopped Dean from going to hell. But that’s just one person’s opinion and might be full
of wishful thinking! But I see your point, if Sam did it, why can’t Dean, but I think
the reason is the way that he’ll be brought back. Or not. Or…heck I don’t know!

As for the death scene, yeah, I’m just glad I don’t have to watch that again any time soon. It was horrific for all the reasons you state. I’ll include gory because it was, but also, it was Dean’s heart that was being ripped asunder. Not his real heart, his metaphorical one. The hellhounds were tearing apart one of the most amazing and selfless older brothers I’ve yet encountered. The one thing that I realized, that at no point does he call for Sam’s help. (Because he knew it would kill Sam to hear it and not be able to do anything about it.) Doesn’t that just break your heart all over again?

I think fans are divided over the hell thing. I can get that if Dean doesn’t go to hell, it’s a big fat gyp, and I’m becoming convinced that yeah, I’d like to see Hell. I’d like to see Dean get out of hell, or as one fanfic postuated, Sam drive the Impala into hell and then win Dean’s soul back during a poker game with Satan. Others have said it’s a copout if Sam rescues him, because that makes Dean weak. (Yeah, he’s weak. Going to hell like that for his brother, uh-huh.) Frankly, I don’t think Dean cares how he gets out of this one, whether Sam rescues him or he crawls out himself the way his Dad did. Either way, I want Dean safe and alive! I’m sure I’m not alone on that.

Thank you for your insightful thoughts here.

Best Regards,

Sylvia

Don’t get me wrong, I can totally see what you are saying here. One of the first discussions I ever had in this fandom quickly turned into an argument because the other person kept trying to tell me that the show was all about Sam, when I felt it was all about Dean. This other person had many, many supporting things for their argument, the plot, the fact that Padalecki’s name comes first in the credits, and on and on. I never could be convinced because I think the show is about the two brothers equally. One ep might showcase Dean, another Sam. I’m a Deangirl, but I love Sam. (We eventually came to an understanding, this person and I.)

And all of my answers, they’re just my answers, my speculations, and they were all about Sam because the topics Joan picked were very Sam-related. However, someone else would have a different responses, regardless.

But didn’t Sam give the amulet to Dean? In my mind, Dean never takes it off becuase Sam gave it to him. So yeah, that invovles Sam.

As for Mary saying sorry to Sam, how can that have anything to do with Dean? I think Mary’s story includes Dean as well, but it does seem that since the demon was in the bedroom with Sam when Mary spoke to him, that Dean is not involved with this part of it. How could he be? He was fast asleep in his little bedroom, oblivious till Dad started shouting and Dean woke up.

As for Sam’s powers, we’ve only seen a smattering of those and they were not totally under Sam’s control. I don’t think he’s Superman or anything close to it. As for Dean, he’s not there to hold Sam’s cape (or his pitchfork, ha ha), he’s there to keep Sam human. To keep him from becoming the freak that Sam fears he will become if he gives in to his powers.

I personally think it’s Dean who’s wearing the wings and the halo. His soul is far purer than Sam’s, that everything he does is selfless and altruistic, where as Sam does things for more personal, less altruistic reasons. But frankly, I don’t think it’s an either or. I’ve been plenty lambasted for talking about Dean like he’s an angel, and other people have been lambasted for thinking and talking about Sam as the Boy King. I don’t think that fans should be made to choose or support one camp or the other, in fact, I don’t think there should be two camps.

As for the rest of it, you seem pretty peeved that Dean’s not getting a fair deal here. The way you describe it, Dean comes across to you as Sam’s trusty sidekick, you know, waiting for Sam to save him from hell and all that. Yeah, Sam will save him, but there’s been plenty of times that the reverse is true. And I don’t see Dean as the sidekick. The brothers are equals in all respects, and Dean is what holds Sam to the earth, keeps him solidly grounded. In Mystery Spot, it seemed to me that Sam would fall apart, destroy himself, and go totally to the darkside if it wasn’t for Dean.

And, if you ascribe to the theory that Dean actually went to hell, consider this. Dean went to hell for his brother. (Even if Dean isn’t in hell, he thinks he is, so it amounts to the same thing.) There is nothing that Sam can do that will ever be a bigger sacrifice than that. The only thing he CAN do is go and get Dean out of there. Whereever there is. Dean is the least MarySuish character I have ever seen, and I’ve not heard that Deanfans are racing to stand behind Sam.

But jeeze, your ideas are stimulating!

Best Regards,

Sylvia

Sam really died and he came back, why not Dean? How can Dean not be dead, he was ripped to shreds? There was a gaping cavity in his chest where his heart should be. I don’t see how he could be any deader. (That was the single most disturbing thing I’ve ever seen on television, the whole death scene, incredibly, incredibly disturbing – I was just kind of in shock for about 10 minutes after – but I’ve realized it wasn’t because it was gory, it was because it was happening to Dean, heroic, self-sacrificing, annoying big brother Dean). If Dean doesn’t go to Hell than he gains nothing from this experience – nothing to bring to the war against the demons when he gets back, nothing to try and help Sam with with regards to his abilities. If Dean is in Hell he can get information that one can only get “living with the enemy”. John was in Hell for a year and while he only got back out as a spirit, he clearly was not demonic. Dean is a strong person, as shown by how he faced his approaching demise, I think he can come out of this, certainly damaged, but still true-hearted.

On Dean being dead, true, but the same could have been said for Sam when he died. This is supernatural after all

While I’m not a fan of deals and death/resurrection drama, I do feel that Kripke has been dinging my bell all season about Dean being in hell, and the hellhounds tearing up his body have surely guaranteed a dead Dean or I cry foul.

The fact that Sam has “powers” now, I believe will play into the bringing of Dean back, but I hope they don’t use them as the deus ex machina where Sam snaps his fingers or roll his eyes or wiggles his nose and Dean is alive and well. I’m hoping for better than that.

As for two guys on the road with the Impala, I would love the show to go back to this, but with SuperSam in the making, I believe that bridge has been burned.

Both Kripke and Singer have both mentioned, especially for season 3, that it is all about Sam, so, for me, it will be all about Sam unless things have changed, which I can only hope. I don’t feel that right now Dean is really part of the story, though I do agree that lately, badass, heroic, smart Dean has emerged and, this at least will have to satisfy me.

While the deal was about Dean, the storyline was still about Sam and his speshulness. Whatever.

I guess my main point it, yes, the deal storyline did end up being about Dean, which is why I want Kripke to see it through by having Dean in hell and getting him out, otherwise, it was just another storyline about Sam and a tool for SAM to emerge.

That being said, I don’t blame your aversion to Ruby, and would have loved to have seen this character played by a more interesting and talented actress. But, meh.

Interesting observations. I think Show isn’t showing us hell because to reveal the monster would take away a lot of the tension. And hey, I could be wrong, Dean might be in hell, or, like you say, in a waiting room or something like that.

So either Dean is dead, and is in hell, or he’s not dead and just thinks he’s in hell.

If Dean died, really died, then that means he can’t really come back next season, at least in the way that we’re familiar with. He’ll be a ghost or a phantom or something else equally nebulous and totally not fun. What I enjoy about Show is the boys driving across the country in the Impala – I would miss it if that pattern changed too much.

At any rate, there’s no telling what Show did or will do till next season starts!

I agree with what you said about Jensen but not about Jared. Both of them did excellent jobs in different ways. But I will definately watch to see if Ruby comes across better depending on who she’s up against. (I tended to pay as little attention to her as possible!)

Perspective is a funny thing. To your way of thinking, the story is all about Sam. The way I see it, the story is all about Dean! (Or at least this season!) I think both of us are right in a way – and I’m sure next season will be more of the same. Fans tend to be protective of the boy they favor. I’m always like, HEY, get that light on Dean here, I need to see his eyelashes! (It’s the little things you treasure.)

Thank you for your very interesting post.

In reading your reply to Joan I find it disturbing that Sam has become the Mary Sue of the show, able to do it all, while Dean is relegated to sidekick.

Take the amulet, Dean wears it because Sam gave it to him

Mary, her story only seems to affect Sam. Dean’s not even in the storyline of Mary, in your speculation, it is all about Sam and only Sam. Which makes me wonder why is Dean not involved, he being the first born and also Mary’s son.

Sam’s Powers, you have him doing everything including dancing backwards with heels on, and my question is, well, if Sam is so speshul and can do it all, why bother with the character of Dean? To hold Sam’s cape? as many have guessed? Because really, Sam won’t need anyone, and neither will the show. Sam is the ultimate superhero, in which case, let’s change the show’s name to Smallville 2.0.

Dean not in hell, well damn, the only storyline Dean’s ever had that’s been his and now that’s going to be taken away so that Sam can be more powerful and more important to the story while Dean is just an emo wreck.

I would rather Dean was in hell, because I want Dean to have more to do than be Sam’s big brother while Sam becomes the big story. I want Dean to retain his ability to see the demons and also to have intel on demons when he gets back so that he will have importance to the story and not just hang his jaw in awe as he watches SuperSam slay all the demons.

Come on, a little fairness here. Give Dean an important part in the story, and don’t let it be all about Sam, or Kripke will end up losing even more Dean fans than he’s already lost.

These are the million dollar questions and I don’t know the to any of them. Plus Show is mean and wants to keep us in the dark until next season. That’s part of the fun. So is speculating. Here’s my personal take, speculations all:

The Amulet – Given to him by brother Sam one Christmas long ago. He always wears it. Rumor has it that it is supposed to protect him. Whether it can protect him from hell is one thing (which I think it can), whether it can protect him from the labrynth of his own mind is another.

Mother Mary – She says I’m sorry because she is. She never wanted this for Sam. But I’m thinking there’s also more to it than that. Maybe she meant to stick around so that she could help him understand the darkness within him, the powers that he is growing into. Maybe Mary wasn’t meant to die on the ceiling that night – maybe she knows more about demons than John ever did.

Sam’s Powers – He’s got lots of powers, he’s psychic, he can do telekinesis, and he can make other demons do his bidding. He can make Lilith back away from him. Sam thinks that Dean thinks he’s a freak for being able to do all of this. I think that’s part of why he’s been resisting his full potential.

Dean – Not in hell, not the traditional one. Hell is anywhere Sam is not. Dean thought he was dying, but Sam stopped that from happening. In spite of that, Dean’s unconscious mind is creating hell as he sees it. It is giving him just what he thought he had coming to him, the meat hooks, the lonliness, the pain, and no Sam. That’s pure hell for Dean.

When he returns – Of course he’s going to be changed! He’s going to be so messed up it’s going to make what happened to him after The Dad died (Everybody Loves a Clown) look like a cake walk. (The crack whore can’t wait!)

The Hallucination – This was standard stuff for anyone soon to be taken by the hellhounds.

Best Regards,

Sylvia

Yes, it was a very good episode, and I enjoyed it terrifically well. And I love your expression, the idea of Sam having Lilith for breakfast! I agree totally – should he encounter her again, she’s toast. Burnt toast. She was mean to Sam’s Dean, and that is Not Allowed. Ever.

Mr. Padalecki is, yes, amazing. He’s got crying down to an art, I’ve not seen anything like it since Mickey Rooney. Mr. Rooney was once asked by a director to cry. Mr. Rooney replied, “How far down my face do you want the tears to go?” Now THAT’s talent.

Padalecki’s like that. You can see he’s in control of what he’s doing, but at the same time, he really feels it in a way, he reaches down inside and makes himself feel it, and then Sam’s a mess. Every time he cries, it rips me apart.

Thank you for your lovely post!

Best Regards,

Sylvia

It is, as always, my pleasure. I love the passion and joy contained in your posts, and your love for Show, as well as your love for the boys. Season 4 should have 22 full on terrific episodes; we’ll have tons of fun talking about it!

As for this ep, I agree wholeheartedly. It was hard to watch, and hard not to think about afterwards. That Show actually killed Dean, there are almost no words to describe the shock that many fans felt. Even though I personally think, to misquote Monty Python, that he’s not dead yet and will be feeling better soon, it was so difficult to watch the Dean’s death throes and not be bawling. I know I was, and you were, and everyone else I know.

The only thing that saves me from being a quivering mess is the fact that we are lucky fans to be getting a season 4. I anticipate good things, but in the meantime, yeah, we’re going to have to suffer through some serious crack withdrawl, “wondering what on earth” and “where can I get me some more?” Like you said, that moment where Sam and Dean exchange glances when the clock strikes midnight…that was PRICELESS. More like that, please.

As for Mr. Ackles, he hit it out of the park this week. But then, he always does. Just when you think he’s going to rest on his laurels, he takes it up another notch. I never grow tired of watching him bring humanity and texture to Dean’s character. I’ll be interested to see what he does with future roles, because I have a feeling we won’t be disappointed.

Best Regards,

Sylvia