And I totally meant to come back and say that I actually DO like what the SaveCarsonBeckett group accomplished and I thought they were great about keeping it sane and rational. THEM I don’t have a problem with and one of the reasons I didn’t join up was because I didn’t realize how sane and rational they were until it was already over and done with and we found out Carson was coming back. (I also didn’t know exactly where the idea to get rid of Carson came from until just now – I didn’t know the producers were forced to do it). Unfortunately I let the more rabid fans on LiveJournal turn me away from seeing the more sane side of things. (I just made a post on my blog that talked about this issue a bit). Which would be a reason why I’m no longer involved with fandom on Livejournal…

If you had a cereal you really liked and suddenly they changed the formula, it doesn’t help to just stop buying, you have to tell the makers *why*.

Fair point and really I can’t disagree with that exactly. Though I think there are times to pick your battles and sometimes that box of cereal (or the death of a character on a TV show) just doesn’t matter as much as something else that might be going on for someone at the same time, or stuff that’s happened to them in the past. And those people are going to think that getting that upset over something as simple and unimportant in the grand scheme of things as a box of cereal or the death of a fictional character is a bit ridiculous even if the ones complaining do have a valid and understandable reason for complaining.

I mean, they write the shows for people to watch — that’s the whole point, in the end — and if people aren’t happy, TPTB need to know. But since not everyone feels the same way, they need to know *all* opinions, and then make a judgement call based on those numbers. And then when enough people say the same thing, TPTB can say “Okay, that was a mistake, we don’t want to lose our viewers, we need to fix this.” And then they get a *chance* to fix it, because they now know *why* people aren’t watching (well, at least in that particular instance). I mean, if you think about it, snce it’s our advertising dollars they’re after, we are their bosses, so they have to make the best effort they can to please as many of us as possible if they want us to watch and keep their advertisers.

If you had a cereal you really liked and suddenly they changed the formula, it doesn’t help to just stop buying, you have to tell the makers *why*.

So it’s not that people let Joe know what they’re thinking that I have a probelm with, it’s *how* so many of them say it. They make sweeping generalisations, they name call, they’re condescending, instead of something along the lines of “I don’t know how others feel, but I really loved Carson and I’m afraid I’m not interested in the show anymore, sorry.” Being hostile, like the people we’re talking about, certainly doesn’t do anything useful, only puts the producers (and other fans) on the defensive. They don’t seem to realise that their immaturity negates anyone taking their opinion seriously.

And like you were saying if I don’t like it I stop watching it! I think that’s the thing that’s causing the most issues for me right now – I’m seeing FAR too many people bitching and yelling and screaming about how horrible the show is and how much they hate it and yet they’re still in the communities and forums for it and they’re still on Joe M’s blog telling us all about how they’re not watching it and how much they hate the producers for “ruining” the show. Why don’t can’t they just shut up and go away and leave the rest of us alone?

As for not getting upset … if I wasn’t emotionally invested like that, as if these characters were old friends or family even, and I didn’t care enough to get indignant about their treatment, I wouldn’t watch to begin with! (But that’s just me, LOL!) I *want* the stories to get me passionate! (I’d just prefer they do it in a *good* way …)

I think this is where I get a little confused… I don’t think I really ever get THAT emotionally invested in a show – or maybe I do and I’m just expressing it differently. I mean take Carson’s death – it HURT a lot and yeah I cried but it wasn’t the end of the world and I didn’t go nuts over it like a lot of fans did. I didn’t scream and yell on the internet saying how unfair it was, nor did I join the “save Carson Beckett” thing. I guess to me it’s a fictional character so why get THAT upset over it? I see what you’re saying about needing to be invested in it to watch the show but I think there’s a point where people get a bit TOO attached – of course where that point is, is going to be different for everyone.

True, true — like when they ended Willow/Oz, it was the actor wanted to leave the show. Bu there’s a difference between having to shange a story because of outside factors or because you realise a story just isn’t working, and changing it because you’re a new writer and you want to “make it your own”, as I see on soaps all the time. It’s like they’re saying “we dont care how much you’ve emotionally invested in these characters and the direction they’ve been going, we don;t care that the people who were writing before teased you like crazy about it and made you salivate like you were eating your fave dish, we’re going to serve you something completely different now, even though you hardly even got to tatse that dish we’ve been waving under your nose for ages now.” Or maybe a better comparision is getting seduced by someone only to have them to suddenly start playing parcheesi halfway through! Sure, ultimately it’s in the writer’s court, but if I don’t like the dish served when it wasn’t what I ordered, or the paramters of the game get changed from what I was going in expecting, and I’m left unsatisfied … yeah, I’m going to get annoyed! LOL

Let me give an example. There was an author who wrote three books, which culminated in the main character ending up with the guy she’d basicaly dated for three books. Then the author wrote a new book, in which suddenly the hubby was killed off, as well as their children; I found out in real life, the woman had ended the relationship with her significant other. And to me that’s not fair to the readers — regardless of whether or not the character was based on her significant other, that’s not the fans’ fault.

In soaps, they don’t usually even have the excuse of real-life relationships colouring the work– it’s usually just because they seem incapable of writing past the hook-up. They need to read fanfic, I guess, because I have read *hundreds* of stories that are about established relationships that were plenty intersting — the whole “once they consummate, the tension is gone and everyone loses interest” thing is such a myth! It’s just laziness in the writing, as far as I’m concerned. And it’s not always a pairing problem either: I hate it when a major plotline fizzles instead of getting resolved, too. (I really need to stop watching soaps, I do, but mum watches them in the other room at full volume, and I get roped in when it sounds like something interesting happens …) That’s why I don’t read comic books so much anynmore — a new writer takes over and flips the whole world upside down and commits what often essentially amounts to character assasination, regardless of what the fans loved about the stories and characters they’re working with in the past. I feel cheated. But we all go into stories for our own reasons, so I can see your point.

As for not getting upset … if I wasn’t emotionally invested like that, as if these characters were old friends or family even, and I didn’t care enough to get indignant about their treatment, I wouldn’t watch to begin with! (But that’s just me, LOL!) I *want* the stories to get me passionate! (I’d just prefer they do it in a *good* way …)

I’m afraid I can’t offer any advice about the blog problem; we use WordPress at The Wapshott Press, and confuses the tar out of me!

(Although I have to say I get suprememly *annoyed* when they are being blatant about getting two characters together and then never resolve it, or just let the story fizzle out for no real reason … Then I feel like it’s a promise that’s been reneged on …)

Sorry I can’t agree with this point. So their NEVER allowed to change their minds about something or relize that maybe something isn’t going to work out the way they wanted it to? I realize it’s probably because I don’t ever take their words as a “promise”. I think there are just to many factors invloved in making a show that some things are going to get changed no matter how much they want to do something. And really this goes with anything that happens on a show – we’re never going to know the exact reasons why something happend so I don’t really think there is a point in getting upset about it.

@Space Cowboy – You’re right I wouldn’t ever make it personal. I do at times get a little out of control though when I think people are being stupid about something. Like what I said to Wolfen above.

@Both of you – And in other news I managed to KILL MY BLOG this morning somehow and have only just now been able to get back to the computer. I tried to post and “save” a draft and for some reason it messed up the database (I think possibly because there was no subject). So now I have to figure out how to fix it and if I can get my old posts back! *SIGH* I see this site is running on WordPress – do either of you have any clue about the errors that can be seen when you go to my site?

Don’t ever worry about stating your opinion. If we didn’t want them on Pink Raygun, we wouldn’t have comments enabled. As you can see by this post, we’re not too concerned with people expressing their opinions. The only time Lisa or I will ever do some editing is to **** out the f-bomb, or if someone makes personal threats we’ll just come in and delete out the entire comment.

You don’t strike me as the type that we would have to worry about either of those scenarios, so post away!

Thanks! And I don’t want anyone to ever feel they can’t post their opinion here, so long as they are civil about it!

As for me, it’s pairings that tend to draw me into a show in the first place (pretty much anything I watch, it’s the interpersonal relationships I watch for first and foremost, and every other element is just icing on the cake). People ask me why I so enjoy seeing romance blossom, why can’t I just let them be friends: well, it’s because, being bisexual *and* polyamorous, my question is never “Why should they?” but rather “Why *shouldn’t* they?” (Well, aside from venerial disease, but that’s what condoms are for. )

But that being said, while I adore my ships, it doesn’t (usually) mean I’ll *stop watching* a show *just* because my preferred pairings don’t work out. It did *upset* me, but I didn’t stop *watching* Buffy when Willow and Oz broke up or when Tara died or when Willow hooked up with Kennedy (even though that pairing made me want to hurl), for example. And even if I did find a sunken ship to be a significant enough reason to quit watching a show — like it was the only reason I watched at *all* — I wouldn’t get all hateful towards the writers or start a campaign or something. *Maybe* I would write to them in support of my ship, but in a positive, *passive* way. More likely, I’d just stop watching and leave it at that, as a personal matter (why keep up with something when you lose interest? Obviously that won’t happen with SGA, though — I’m already pretty sure McShep will never make it into the show as anything but a platonic thing with sly subtext, so that couldn’t possibly be the only reason I watch.) And I can’t understand ‘shipper wars — why can’t people just leave it as “to each their own”? I get annoyed at people who threaten to stop watching a show if two people *do* get together: if they don’t like it, they can just stop watching, they don’t have to try to ruin it for people who *would* enjoy it. I leave it to the writers in the end, to decide whether *their* characters should hook up or not. (Although I have to say I get suprememly *annoyed* when they are being blatant about getting two characters together and then never resolve it, or just let the story fizzle out for no real reason … Then I feel like it’s a promise that’s been reneged on …)

Anyway awesome review as always. I haven’t had chance to re-watch the episode yet and probably won’t until later this afternoon.

I gotta say I really don’t understand the whole pairing thing at all… and I just deleted the rest of what I was going to say on that subject… it got way to long and it got a little bitchy (against fandom, not the show)… I’ll probably repost it in my own blog along with my episode comments but I didn’t think you’d want it here…